The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Electric Guitars

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 07-21-2020, 07:10 PM
jab.phila jab.phila is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 132
Default Advice on Getting a Pro-Level Amp

Hello AGF Crew,

I'm five years in on my guitar journey. It has been more fun than I ever expected. There have been two tracks going at the same time: growing musically and learning/hunting for the gear to make that happen. At this point, I feel great about where I've landed with my Northwood on the acoustic front, my Heritage on the electric front, and my Saez Marin on the classical front. My next step is to go after the amplifier to take my electric rig to the next level.

I've started out with a Blues Junior, which feels akin to getting started on an entry-level solid wood guitar--its a great place to start, but not where I want to land indefinitely. I'm looking for a pro-level amp that can do well on gigs and at home, handling blues and jazz primarily, with a full, warm tone.

I'm into really high-quality, lower-profile gear that gets you an amazing bang for your buck and can cover a lot of ground, hence my choice in guitars. I can afford one really nice piece of gear with versatility, which I much prefer over two average ones that cover different bases.

My initial forays into amp research have me looking at a Carl's Custom Tumblin Dice Custom Tweed Twin at roughly $2k beating out a Fender Custom 57 Tweed Twin new at $3k.

I'm wondering about a two speaker Twin versus a four speaker Super Reverb versus a one speaker Princeton. The Twin meets you in the middle. George Benson goes for it... Is there something else? I'm definitely interested in the Fender tube amp ballpark unless you're compelled to steer me elsewhere based on what you're reading here.

Thanks for all the input. Jake
__________________
Northwood 00-80 (Adirondack/Brazilian)
Northwood LP-Style Tobacco Burst
Morgan JS12
Saez Marin G90 (Cedar/EIR)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-21-2020, 08:03 PM
rcolosi's Avatar
rcolosi rcolosi is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Saint Marys, GA
Posts: 982
Default

Hey Jake,
Full disclosure, I am a brutal amp snob…so I’ll just give one recommendation..which was the first and obvious one that came to mind.

Morgan PR12 combo. Don’t let the 12 watts fool you. It is a beast. And in my humble opinion, there is not a Fender amp made that will touch it sonically speaking. The quality is not even in the same zip code. I’m not bashing Fender…they’re fine amps. The Morgans are at a completely different level, that’s all. : )

In your price range though, there are a lot of options …actually looking forward to some of the responses…it’s a great question.

A couple links:
https://morganamps.com/amps/amplifiers/pr12/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jtx0bf6jG9A
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-21-2020, 08:48 PM
blue blue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: WetSiiiide! WA
Posts: 7,851
Default

The biggest value for pro gear is a used Mesa.

Here's one to look at based on what you're currently looking at. $880 for a 50 watt recto-verb shipped!

https://reverb.com/item/34734244-mes...erb-112-mk2-ii

Here's a vid on it

__________________
I only play technologically cutting edge instruments. Parker Flys and National Resonators
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-21-2020, 10:15 PM
Machew Machew is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 16
Default

The two I have an eye on are 3rd Power Kichen Sink and an Amplified Nation Ampliphonix. Which at this present I can afford neither.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-21-2020, 10:26 PM
100LL 100LL is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 86
Default

I can't give advice because i'm a newbie myself, but can say that between my 3 fenders I like my Princeton Reverb best.

But there's a Dr Z head and cab arrangement that I'm quite intrigued by. maybe check out those guys.

As an official gear junkie, I can say that I've learned amps have personalities and man o man are there a lot of boutique guitar amp makers out there. Seems like every day I learn of another manufacturer.

Whatever you do go hand-wired USA or British...and full tube of course (including tube rectified)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-21-2020, 10:49 PM
Aspiring Aspiring is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,660
Default

Well you did mention you like versatility. If you haven't yet take a look at the Axe FXIII or helix/ Kemper equivalents.

Plenty of pros use them for live shows and recordings.

I have a very nice Tone King amp and the AXE FX and while I love the Tone King the Axe is pretty amazing in what it can cover.

It will also allow you to try out endless amp models and find sounds you might not have expected to like.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-22-2020, 07:39 AM
Paleolith54 Paleolith54 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Desert Hills, AZ
Posts: 1,373
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 100LL View Post
I can't give advice because i'm a newbie myself...

Whatever you do go hand-wired USA or British...and full tube of course (including tube rectified)
OK.

OP, you do NOT need to "go hand wired." Some of the best amps made are not hand wired ( like Mesa.) I've owned a hand wired Budda Superdrive, and the later Peavey version of the same amp, and they were sonically identical. Nor is tube rectified better, just different.

I hope you filter recommendations closely; I have no idea where some folks get their info.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-22-2020, 07:44 AM
M Sarad M Sarad is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bakersfield!!!
Posts: 2,037
Default

My latest discovery was the Carr Sportsman.
__________________
rubber Chicken
Plastic lobster
Jiminy Cricket.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-22-2020, 07:52 AM
100LL 100LL is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 86
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paleolith54 View Post
OK.

OP, you do NOT need to "go hand wired." Some of the best amps made are not hand wired ( like Mesa.) I've owned a hand wired Budda Superdrive, and the later Peavey version of the same amp, and they were sonically identical. Nor is tube rectified better, just different.

I hope you filter recommendations closely; I have no idea where some folks get their info.
It's called an opinion, which is no different than you being able to have and express yours.

In my opinion, if he can afford it he should go hand wired not because it sounds better but because it's a better long term investment and much more serviceable and (depending on a few factors like the shock and vibe environment) generally more reliable. Plus from a market perspective they probably hold their value better long term (my guess).

So you acknowledge Tube Rectification is different. But you say it's not better. So is solid state rectification better? Care to share your OPINION, or perhaps state something helpful to the OP?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-22-2020, 08:12 AM
Paleolith54 Paleolith54 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Desert Hills, AZ
Posts: 1,373
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 100LL View Post
It's called an opinion, which is no different than you being able to have and express yours.

In my opinion, if he can afford it he should go hand wired not because it sounds better but because it's a better long term investment and much more serviceable and (depending on a few factors like the shock and vibe environment) generally more reliable. Plus from a market perspective they probably hold their value better long term (my guess).

So you acknowledge Tube Rectification is different. But you say it's not better. So is solid state rectification better? Care to share your OPINION, or perhaps state something helpful to the OP?
I already did.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-22-2020, 08:12 AM
EverettWilliams EverettWilliams is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 755
Default

I think we need some more information.

What kind of Heritage are you playing? Humbuckers, P-90s, hollow, semi-hollow, solid...

What guitar players tones do you dig? Blues and jazz is a big bucket.

What volume range are you looking to cover? "Gigs and home" is a big range. How big of a venue would you be playing without a mic on the amp and would you need clean headroom to support it or are you okay with a little dirt on it? At home, do you have a space where you can turn it up a bit or will you be constrained by whisper volumes? The reality is that very, very few amps will give you both of those worlds without an attenuator.

Do you want reverb? Vibrato/tremolo?

I think once you've determined the tone you want to get, you can figure out which family of sounds you want. There was a huge range in sounds in Fender amps -- a tweed deluxe sounds different than a brown deluxe which sounds different from a black deluxe. You may conclude that you want a little more variety too -- there are some amps that have two different types of power tubes or differently voiced channels.

There's no substitute for playing them, but really thinking about your real world needs and, more importantly, constraints will permit you to narrow what's out there and with a budget like you're suggesting, you will be able to do very well either in the vintage market (depending on what you want) or in the boutique market. I love both types. Some builders on the boutique side who I really enjoy include Carr (and they make the rare amps that actually attenuate very well!), Top Hat, and Victoria. I own amps by all three and think very highly of tone and construction.

Let us know a little more about what you want and we can provide some better suggestions. Good luck!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-22-2020, 09:00 AM
100LL 100LL is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 86
Default

Some people prefer all solid-state amps. They're not wrong if it's what they prefer. Plus they generally cost less. Definitely not better to my ears.

So a lot of the advice here is going to be focused on people's personal experience and the opinions formed from that, and won't necessarily offer any technical discussion or reasoning behind their opinion.

Going hand-wired offers several benefits that are simply factual. They cost more because they're more expensive to build. It could be argued that if you can buy two PCB based amps (even with cheap onboard tube sockets) for the price of one hand-wired, well perhaps having a complete backup is more sensible in the reliability standpoint.

But then there's a factor of what you can afford and how much reliability do you need versus what you want. Hand-wiring is a luxury, and it also supports 'local' business and labor, plus if you ever have problems and want to actually figure them out, it really starts to pay dividends.

Regarding tube rectification, the benefits are characteristics that are well into the personal opinion territory. A lot of the amp's personality will come from a tube rectifier, much more so in an A/B class and depending on the power transformer size. The associated voltage drops upon higher loads (termed sag or sometimes lag) is what's primarily responsible for a lot of the 'warmth' or 'rounded' sound. Quite subjective. It's because, as opposed to solid-state rectifiers (which aren't all the same btw), the tube bias voltage is seeing quite a bit of variation in response to the drive.

I'm a technical guy, so I'm into this sort of stuff...and have been doing HiFi for decades. My PhD isn't in this though, so plenty left to learn. I think in the end, going with a reputable builder, whether the big boys high end models or the boutique builders, is a safe bet and if nothing else leaves you with something you can look upon with pride.

Hope that's helpful and passes through the filter.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-22-2020, 09:02 AM
FrankHudson FrankHudson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 4,876
Default

These give me suggestions on what to buy threads is always difficult. It's difficult for many of us to make these choices ourselves, but add to the remove that we're not you, may not play like you, or have tastes like you, and so on.

So, anything we suggest will just be a shot in the dark, or something we like.

Some will have suggestion however. Sorta-kinda random for these reasons, but they're just like a Magic 8-ball or your fortune-cookie fortune--they might be right or a place to start. I get the impression from that you're too new into your experience/journey to know what you'll like today, tomorrow, or next year. This makes things even harder.

In my view you have several routes to choose from. One is to just start buying amps--but you've already got a Blues Junior, which is actually a respectable small tube combo amp. Believe me, a good player with a decent guitar can make one of those sound heavenly. No, it's not everyone's favorite amp, nor is it perfect for any use and sound (no amp is). But I'll point out that while another amp may be inspiring. or perhaps a better fit for what your playing develops into, or loud enough to play with a heavy drummer without PA reinforcement or something, that you could just continue to develop your playing with that amp.

Your OP says you want to explore other options than just sticking with the Blues Junior. So another fork is that "just start buying amps" one. You say you're looking for off the beaten path kind of models. I admire your sense of adventure, but there's a lot to be said having experience with the some of the touchstones of amp sound and design. So if you've lived with a Princeton, a Twin, and Tweed Deluxe and the cleaner, brighter blackpanel Deluxe Reverb or Bassman, a Marshall or two, a Vox, maybe a Mesa Boogie, in any order and from Fender or from smaller makers who often take these classics as some part of their own recipe, then you'll have grounding in knowing what you like. Even if you're lucky with budget, resale value, storage space, this is a considerable expense (and in this expense, include your time and focus). I may sound like I'm knocking this path, but I followed it to some degree, though at the lower end of these brand's lines, and buying used for the most part. After doing that I don't know if it was wise. I don't know if I'd do it over the same way for sure. I could never have afforded a top of the line boutique example of all the amps I bought and sold, and maybe people who buy top of the line boutique examples stop after one or two tries (or they just stop because of the expense). I can tell you it was fun a lot of the time.

A third route has been suggested upthread, since you seem to have some budget and desire to explore different sounds rather than to develop your playing around a singular sound. Get a modern modeling setup: Helix, Kemper, AxeFX. Yes, Yes. I heard you say you wanted a tube amp for sure. Hear me out. If you combine this with a power cab (Full Range/Full Response) or a small PA setup (which you can use for vocals in a band context later) and you'll be able to live with reasonable approximations of those classic amps I mention above. Yes, what I'm suggesting isn't cheap. Yes, what I'm suggesting will cost you time and focus, just like the "Just start buying amps" path will--but also, it can be fun for some. Maybe you'll find your amp sound "hometown" and buy the multi-thousand dollar handwired tube amp of your dreams from that accrued experience, rather than several serially-bought and not-quite-it multi-thousand dollar amps of your dreams.

Me, I started in 1981 with a used black panel Princeton. I tried and owned a bunch of amps. I still have a small tube Vox and Mesa, a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe and a reissue Super Champ and Champ. I've played with modelers and software, though nothing from the current generation. Guess what's the first sound I try to setup in a modeler? Black panel Fender Princeton. Go figure.

If you want me to suggest a current all tube amp to sit next to your Blues Jr. (besides my own Princeton personal favoritism--and one size does not fit all!) I hear good things about the Fender 68 Custom Deluxe Reverb which does a good black panel Fender clean and "Tweed" setting that's kind of like a 1x12 combo Fender Bassman sound, and the new price for that is reasonable. I've never played one myself, but I like both of those Fender sounds. I think Mesa in general does a nice job of building amps that have more than one sound in them, but I haven't played their most recent models.

Be skeptical of the "resale value" factor in any of this. Future values are hard to guarantee, even with experienced folks making projections.
__________________
-----------------------------------
Creator of The Parlando Project

Guitars: 20th Century Seagull S6-12, S6 Folk, Seagull M6; '00 Guild JF30-12, '01 Martin 00-15, '16 Martin 000-17, '07 Parkwood PW510, Epiphone Biscuit resonator, Merlin Dulcimer, and various electric guitars, basses....
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-22-2020, 09:43 AM
jab.phila jab.phila is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 132
Default

OP Here. THANK YOU AGF!

I woke up, got started on work and I see all this amazing and opinionated response. Keep it coming! I am really grateful.

To respond to a couple lines of thought and/or questions.

- My Heritage 535 is their iteration of a 335. So, its semi-hollow with humbuckers. Its relatively new, so it has the Seymour Duncan Seth Lovers. It's a nice, clean, pro-level 335 that feels really good to play.

- I like tone. Fat, warm, punchy tone. Tone feels like the most versatile aspect of an instrument that I can get. I'm not looking to record. I want to keep growing musically with myself and have that branch out to more gigs and more musical community. My goal is to sound good live when I play every day, not record well, if ever.

- I primarily play with my fingers. I switched from an 000-14 fret to a 00-12 fret on the acoustic side because of that.

- As far as styles, the blues lineage of Robert Johnson, BB King and Kirk Fletcher. Starting there and staying there gets me to the jazz, gospel, neosoul chord/lick/bend lyrical music that feels good in your bones. Fat, warm, sometimes punchy.

- As far as pedals, I have a few overdrives (OCD and a TubeScreamer), an EP boost, a Boss Digital Delay, and I just got my first boutique pedal: Josh Smith's beloved Tchula. I don't want to get more complicated than that until I really learn what I'm doing with these things.

I don't have the bandwidth to go too far down the amp rabbit trail. I guess I'm looking for the same experience I had going from a Larrivee to a Northwood: "holy cow, I never knew it could be this good." Or from an Epiphone Casino hanging on a Guitar Center wall to the 535 arriving in my house, same experience.

The Blues Junior sounds nice, but it doesn't feel lush and swell in your chest. I want that feeling when I play every day trying to get better at this little hobby of mine. I am sure there are so many amp snobs out there because you've had that experience at some point in your life.
__________________
Northwood 00-80 (Adirondack/Brazilian)
Northwood LP-Style Tobacco Burst
Morgan JS12
Saez Marin G90 (Cedar/EIR)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-22-2020, 09:46 AM
Nama Ensou Nama Ensou is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,560
Default

Lots of great info in some of these posts and I would suggest not buying anything until you've had a chance to play through a good number of amps, including as many of the suggestions made here, as possible and seeing where your preferences lie. Carr, Louis Electric and and the Friedman DS40 are three amps (well, two brands and one specific amp) that I think would be hard for you to go wrong with, based on your original post.
If you can try out some amps and bring feedback on what you liked and what you didn't then the suggestions here could start getting more in line with what you've found out.
Also, like was said earlier, the amp you've got now has a very good following, with many players making it pay for itself, so it sounds like you definitely got off to a good start.

One more thing about the Princeton vs. Super vs. Twin; you might want to check into the other amps in between too. A lot of people really like the Super amp section with either a Vibrolux 2 x 10" or the Pro with 2 x 12", just like the Twin, but the same power as the Super.
__________________
Journey OF660, Adamas 1581, 1587, 1881, SMT - PRS Cu22, Ibanez JEM-FP, S540, RG550, Fender Stratocaster
Heil PR-35 : Audio Technica AE-6100, ATM5R : Beyer TG-V90r : Sennheiser 441, 609, 845, 906 : ElectroVoice ND767
HK 608i
Friedman WW Smallbox, Marshall 4212

Last edited by Nama Ensou; 07-22-2020 at 09:52 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Electric Guitars

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=