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  #1  
Old 07-21-2020, 06:41 PM
FrankHudson FrankHudson is offline
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Default So, I'm finally (re) trying flat-wound strings on a solid body electric

I have flats on one big archtop--and as my sig says "too many electric guitars." Steve DeRosa here keeps reminding us of the old-school value of flat-wound strings, correctly noting that in the 50s and early 60s they were the standard thing for electrics.

Now besides the one hollow-body guitar that has a set of flats, I have flats on three electric basses--but I was pretty convinced that I didn't care for them on a "regular" electric guitar. I generally like my electric guitars and amps on the bright side, and though my old fingers are not like they once were, I like to bend strings every which way. Once or twice I tried a set of flats on a solid-body electric. I can't remember which brand or gauge, but the last time was on a Squier fairly-faithful-to-the-original-design Jaguar which I was all ready to use with flats. Jaguars have a short scale and a bridge design that likes a bit of downforce--so I put the flats on shortly after I bought it.

I hated'em. I don't think I gave them more than a couple of days before I took them off. My memory was it was like playing the deadest set of strings ever, and the Jaguar lost the lovely brightness that it had with whatever strings Fender ships them with. I still love that Jaguar, but with round-wound strings on it.

But I kept wanting to revisit this. Maybe on a different guitar? Maybe I was ready for something different now that I wasn't ready for them? Part of the reason I have too many electric guitars is that I like different sounds in different moods after all.

I few months back I bought a set of Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Swing flats (nearly $30 a set, but I sure love TI flats on a couple of basses). But then I put off trying them. Which guitar? Today I made that decision. I have a Telecaster, essentially a Fender 52 RI with a 90s American Fender Tele neck on it. I had used it as my "think acoustic, play electric guitar" once, and had it strung up with a set of heavier gauge round-wound electric strings with a wound G string. I'd never optimized the action and I had a couple of other Telecasters that I was always using instead. It got set aside.

So before I risked the $30 set of strings I worked on that action. Turned out I could get it lower if "reverse shimmed" (front of the pocket, not the rear) the neck a tad. After doing that I redid the intonation still with the old set of "medium" round-wound electric strings before taking them off and putting on the flats.

Even before I plugged it in, I had a good feeling. The guitar seemed livelier for some reason with the shim and resulting lowered bridge barrels unplugged. Took it to my studio space to try it with a couple of amps for a hour or so this afternoon. First up, a Hot Rod Deluxe on the clean channel. Not dull, not the dead string sound I remembered. Yes there's a more fundamental tone on the wound strings. But still clean Tele-like, just without a lot of zing, and since I have another Tele I can grab for zing, not a problem. And if you go onto the Tele 52 RI neck pickup with the tone rolled off a bit (mine has the "modern wiring, not the original '52 scheme) you get a great punchy/woody "archtop jazz tone" that is a hidden gem in the Tele sonic paint box. Before leaving the studio space, I tried it with a crunch gain level channel on my Super Champ XD. Still different, but in a nice way.

Yes, these old fingers don't like bending the heavier strings, but I'll cope for now. Chording (as Steve reminds us) isn't all that bad assuming you have decently low action. The flats feel a bit nicer under the finger tips when sliding up and down the neck too.

So there you are, my first day trying flats on a solid-body guitar. I think I may be keeping this sound around.
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  #2  
Old 07-21-2020, 06:57 PM
CASD57 CASD57 is offline
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I use Thomastik Infields 13-56 Flats on my Affinity Strat that I custom with a 2-P90 Stew-Mac pickguard

Never any trouble with the neck... Been like that for 10 years..
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  #3  
Old 07-21-2020, 09:39 PM
Aspiring Aspiring is offline
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I just experimented with a set of ti jazz lights for my Collings hollow body.

I wanted more bendy action so ordered the single string unwound g in the set instead of the flat wounds. And I went down a gauge from what I was running before (I think I ended up at the .10)

I am super happy with the increase in playability and bendability and very happy with the tone. Seems like a nice compromise.

I love the flats on the bass strings
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Old 07-22-2020, 10:08 AM
Dadzmad Dadzmad is offline
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I have 2 Tele's and keep a set of flats on one of them (Rotosound Top Tapes) This one is a 2007 ash FSR with A2 pickups. It seems like something just clicks with a Tele when using heavy flatwound strings with lighter magnet pickups. I keep regular nickel round wounds on the other Tele and enjoy both worlds.
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  #5  
Old 07-22-2020, 10:22 AM
121 121 is offline
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Default Flatwound even on an Acoustic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspiring View Post
I just experimented with a set of ti jazz lights for my Collings hollow body.

I wanted more bendy action so ordered the single string unwound g in the set instead of the flat wounds. And I went down a gauge from what I was running before (I think I ended up at the .10)

I am super happy with the increase in playability and bendability and very happy with the tone. Seems like a nice compromise.

I love the flats on the bass strings
I think flatwound strings are great even on an acoustic guitar
I use them on all my acoustic guitars.
Dogal Nightclub V25 80/20 Bronze .011-.014-.016w-.022-.030-.042 and
Galli AJF1047 80/20 Bronze 010-.014-.023w-.030-.039-.047

I like that idea of using an unwound G in the set instead of the flat wound and
I'm going to try it on the Galli AJF1047 string set I use.
Got some .022 plain strings due in Saturday.

Last edited by 121; 07-22-2020 at 12:27 PM.
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  #6  
Old 07-22-2020, 04:06 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankHudson View Post
I have flats on one big archtop--and as my sig says "too many electric guitars." Steve DeRosa here keeps reminding us of the old-school value of flat-wound strings, correctly noting that in the 50s and early 60s they were the standard thing for electrics...

I few months back I bought a set of Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Swing flats (nearly $30 a set, but I sure love TI flats on a couple of basses). But then I put off trying them. Which guitar? Today I made that decision. I have a Telecaster, essentially a Fender 52 RI with a 90s American Fender Tele neck on it. I had used it as my "think acoustic, play electric guitar" once, and had it strung up with a set of heavier gauge round-wound electric strings with a wound G string. I'd never optimized the action and I had a couple of other Telecasters that I was always using instead. It got set aside.

So before I risked the $30 set of strings I worked on that action. Turned out I could get it lower if "reverse shimmed" (front of the pocket, not the rear) the neck a tad. After doing that I redid the intonation still with the old set of "medium" round-wound electric strings before taking them off and putting on the flats.

Even before I plugged it in, I had a good feeling. The guitar seemed livelier for some reason with the shim and resulting lowered bridge barrels unplugged. Took it to my studio space to try it with a couple of amps for a hour or so this afternoon. First up, a Hot Rod Deluxe on the clean channel. Not dull, not the dead string sound I remembered. Yes there's a more fundamental tone on the wound strings. But still clean Tele-like, just without a lot of zing, and since I have another Tele I can grab for zing, not a problem. And if you go onto the Tele 52 RI neck pickup with the tone rolled off a bit (mine has the "modern wiring, not the original '52 scheme) you get a great punchy/woody "archtop jazz tone" that is a hidden gem in the Tele sonic paint box. Before leaving the studio space, I tried it with a crunch gain level channel on my Super Champ XD. Still different, but in a nice way.

Yes, these old fingers don't like bending the heavier strings, but I'll cope for now. Chording (as Steve reminds us) isn't all that bad assuming you have decently low action. The flats feel a bit nicer under the finger tips when sliding up and down the neck too.

So there you are, my first day trying flats on a solid-body guitar. I think I may be keeping this sound around.
FYI back in the '80s/90s I used to have one of the first late-CBS '52 Tele reissues set up with D'A 12-52 Chromes flatwounds, that I used to play through either a Music Man 410-65 or mid-80's Peavey Bandit (with an upgrade Scorpion Plus speaker), and your impressions are dead on the money - that classic early-Bakersfield twang minus the nails-on-a-blackboard highs Teles can often have with roundwounds. As I'm sure you know I'm a Gretsch guy at heart, and I had mine stealth-rewired with a 5-way switch to tap into some of that 60 Broadway mojo while keeping the "spirit of '52" intact; if you're interested here's the specs:
  • Position #1 - neck PU, .1mfd cap ('52 spec first-position)
  • Position #2 - neck PU, .047 cap (Stephen Stills "Wooden Ships" lead tone)
  • Position #3 - neck PU, volume/tone control ('52 spec middle position)
  • Position #4 - neck/bridge in series, volume/tone control
  • Position #5 - bridge PU, volume/tone control
Rolling off the tone control in positions #4 & 5 does a fair approximation of the "soft rolloff" position on the post-1958 Gretsch 3-way tone switch - great as an alternate jazz tone, or if your OD is too edgy/fizzy-sounding and you don't want to mess with the amp's EQ on the fly; sorry I don't have the schematic, but it should be easy to duplicate if you have a competent tech or an electronics background...

The man will never steer you wrong...
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Old 07-22-2020, 10:18 PM
blue blue is offline
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Used them in my surf band days. I liked them. Can't prove it, but I think my picking was better with them. Could have just been all the tremolo picking sharpened my skills... Middle position on a Jazzmaster with fat nickel flats is as near perfect a sound as you are likely to find.
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Old 07-24-2020, 08:21 AM
Pnewsom Pnewsom is offline
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I've been using D'Addario Chromes 11-50's on my 62Re-issue Strat, and 335 and like them very much. I'd been using Chromes on my Archtop for a long time, and wondered if they would sound good on my Strat for gigs that were to loud for the Archtop. They worked out very well. I go with the wound Gstring, which doesn't bend easily so I slide up the string instead. They sound very good on the 335 too.
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Old 07-24-2020, 08:28 AM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Originally Posted by Pnewsom View Post
I've been using D'Addario Chromes 11-50's on my 62 Re-issue Strat, and 335 and like them very much...
"Strats and flats" are the classic surf setup - hope you have a blonde/blackface Twin to go with it...
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  #10  
Old 07-24-2020, 09:51 AM
FrankHudson FrankHudson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pnewsom View Post
I've been using D'Addario Chromes 11-50's on my 62Re-issue Strat, and 335 and like them very much. I'd been using Chromes on my Archtop for a long time, and wondered if they would sound good on my Strat for gigs that were to loud for the Archtop. They worked out very well. I go with the wound Gstring, which doesn't bend easily so I slide up the string instead. They sound very good on the 335 too.
Yeah, I think I'm going to have to remember to slide up a fret (or try flats on a vibrato bridge guitar). My old finger joints are not happy with that wound G on my test-bed Tele. If I play it like I play my acoustic these days I'm OK, but I fall into a lot of bent G string licks when I'm playing electric, and I can't seem to help myself. The note comes out flat and my joints still hurt.

I also might try tuning to Eb next too.

What I did try yesterday was playing with amps and amp sims with more filthy overdrive/fuzz. This actually is a worthwhile combination. That less overtones/more fundamental thing meshes well with the extra overtones and girth of a thick and furry signal. I wonder why flats never became a thing for grungy or down-tuned metal.

As my fretting finger joints gave out, I tried a playing a little slide. When playing acoustic slide I like it sloppy. I like round-wound string noise, even a little fret slap. Sorry, skilled and talented players, that's just my degraded taste there. But I happen to like a smooth slide sound on electric too. Another nice combination there with the smooth surface of the wound strings, forgiving of my sometimes too heavy touch with the slide on electric guitar.
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Old 07-24-2020, 10:32 AM
blue blue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa View Post
"Strats and flats" are the classic surf setup - hope you have a blonde/blackface Twin to go with it...
SACRILEGE! Bandmaster or Showman if you're nasty!
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Old 07-24-2020, 06:04 PM
Pnewsom Pnewsom is offline
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I can only get a useful semi-tone bend from my wound G strings, but enough years have gone by with this setup that I've pretty much moved on from bending anyhow. The upside for me, is that to my ear, bending strings has become so defacto in rock and blues that I feel that moving away from it has given me a more distinct sound and style. I still have the E&B strings to bend if I really feel the need, but I seldom do.

Another big plus with my 62 RI Strat, is that pups in the Fender Re-issue line come with the G pole piece lower that the E and B poles because originally the 50's and 60's guitars were designed for a wound G. The wound G string comes out fat and sassy instead of sounding somewhat weaker than the E and B strings when using the unwound G. I also find that my guitars tune better with the wound G for some reason.

I still have a 52RI Tele strung with round wounds and a plain G, but it doesn't get out of the house much, if ever, these days.

Another plus with the Chromes is that I literally get over a year out of a set of strings, and the ones on my Archtop see well over a hundred shows a year. They never break, or tarnish, and stay in tune beautifully.

I'm contemplating a set on my Collings CJ.
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Old 07-24-2020, 07:32 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Originally Posted by blue View Post
SACRILEGE! Bandmaster or Showman if you're nasty!
I personally prefer the open-back Twins (as do most of the folks on the surf-guitar sites from what I've seen): same power, more "air" and "spread" to the tone (the closed-back Fender cabs always sounded "beamy" to my ears - more '67 San-Fran than '63 So-Cal) - and with a pair of factory JBL's, well...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pnewsom View Post
...Another big plus with my '62 RI Strat, is that pups in the Fender Re-issue line come with the G pole piece lower that the E and B poles because originally the 50's and 60's guitars were designed for a wound G. The wound G string comes out fat and sassy instead of sounding somewhat weaker than the E and B strings when using the unwound G. I also find that my guitars tune better with the wound G for some reason.

I still have a '52 RI Tele strung with round wounds and a plain G, but it doesn't get out of the house much, if ever, these days.

Another plus with the Chromes is that I literally get over a year out of a set of strings, and the ones on my archtop see well over a hundred shows a year. They never break, or tarnish, and stay in tune beautifully...
The three main reasons I use flatwounds almost exclusively (my Godin CW II sounds cleaner with half-round 12's, and my '82 Yamaha SSC-500 only likes the now-discontinued GHS 1810 compound-wrap set)...

BTW, I'd also take the plunge on that '52 Tele - see my post #6 above...
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Old 07-25-2020, 07:28 AM
Pnewsom Pnewsom is offline
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[QUOTE=
BTW, I'd also take the plunge on that '52 Tele - see my post #6 above...[/QUOTE]


Steve, the real reason that my Tele doesn't get out much is that the body rubs against the bottom of my rib cage in a painful way. Otherwise it sounds as good or better than my other guitars. Really like your 5 way switch set up.

May have to give that and the flat wounds a try now that my Covid belly fat growth is nearly sufficient to solve the rIb cage problem.
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Old 07-25-2020, 09:45 AM
blue blue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa View Post
I personally prefer the open-back Twins (as do most of the folks on the surf-guitar sites from what I've seen): same power, more "air" and "spread" to the tone (the closed-back Fender cabs always sounded "beamy" to my ears - more '67 San-Fran than '63 So-Cal) - and with a pair of factory JBL's, well...
Well times have changed I guess. It used to be all about headroom and punch. I had a dual-ly and a bandmaster. I'd get teased when I brought the Bandmaster!

I assume the change to lower power amp requirements in venues changed things at some point to where twins came on the scene?

But yeah, 1990's to early to mid 2000's when I was into it, twins were not the thng!
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