the ultimate guitar pickup -- I'm not kidding

[Vancebo]

Yes, the Pure always had a big bottom end. It was combined with the UST that was brighter and the silver bullet mic that wasn't as boomy. Each of the 3 sources had a 3 band eq right inside the guitar so a lot of bass roll off was employed on those two then additional amount sometimes on my Equinox. I also play a Goodall Concert Jumbo .... Rosewood. Again, plenty of bass. So it doesn't surprise me.

Seems to me that the closer I get the mic out of the box pointed to the strings the less boomy it is but the more feedback prone. I am trying to locate it similar to the pictures here and similar to the mic on my multisource. 1 to 2 inches inside the guitar seem to make matters worse. But hey, I am all up for experimentation!

[ericcsong]

Originally Posted by Vancebo

About the SPS 1. I am definitely drinking the cool aid. It would have saved me lots of money if I just did this 15 years ago.

its not cool aid if it really is that good

[Fran Guidry]

The AKG 416 is hypercardioid, so directional, so it will exhibit proximity effect. And it's hard to get much more "proximitized" than inside the guitar.

The DPA is omni, no bass boost due to proximity.

The 416 will require a big whack in the lows with a shelving filter or a rolloff pretty high up the frequency spectrum.

Fran

[Vancebo]

So, after all of this discussion, here is what I am going to do:

Wire a K&K mini directly to one pole of the stereo end pin and wire a DPA 4061 to the other pole of the end pin. It will be powered appropriately by the Module of my SPS 1. Right?

There was talk about using a transistor in the mic channel. Don't know what that's about but maybe if someone would explain...

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Vancebo

So, after all of this discussion, here is what I am going to do:

Wire a K&K mini directly to one pole of the stereo end pin and wire a DPA 4061 to the other pole of the end pin. It will be powered appropriately by the Module of my SPS 1. Right?

There was talk about using a transistor in the mic channel. Don't know what that's about but maybe if someone would explain...

That's what I do, clean and simple. Make sure you put the mic on the ring, and use the pickup/mic SPS-1 module. No idea what the transistor is about.

[EarlG]

I'm also dissatisfied with pickups in general and prefer a mic/ undersaddle arrangement. But for me, the DPA is far too noisy. I now intend using a Neumann or Schoeps internally. Cost is immaterial... as long as I never have to do it again on the same guitar!

Incidentally, K&K isn't ideal for Brunner OGs, and Superglue gives me the creeps.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by EarlG

But for me, the DPA is far too noisy.

DPA's are noisy? Maybe you got some bad ones? I can't imagine hearing the self-noise in a DPA mic in any live environment. Neuman, Schoeps, DPA, all in the same class of mic, and hard to beat.

[EarlG]

I can't imagine hearing the self-noise in a DPA mic in any live environment.

Hi Doug. You're right - but I don't want to hear it in recordings, either. And I sure do.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by EarlG

Hi Doug. You're right - but I don't want to hear it in recordings, either. And I sure do.

Odd, DPAs are known for being extremely quiet. Frequent choice for classical recordings.

[Doug Young]

What nuemann and schopes mics are you planning to put inside your guitar?

Generally, for recording, internal mics are less than optimal, of course. External beats internal every time.

[EarlG]

Noise levels/ Signal-to-Noise Ratios

DPA 4061: 26 dB-A/ 68 dB-A
Neumann 184: 13 dB-A/ 78 dB-A
Schoeps CCM 21 (for instance): 14 dB-A/ 80 dB-A

[EarlG]

internal mics are less than optimal

I need a system I can rely on for both live and live recording. I have no qualms with the 4061's quality, but the noise is very audible to me in quiet recorded passages.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by EarlG

Noise levels/ Signal-to-Noise Ratios

DPA 4061: 26 dB-A/ 68 dB-A
Neumann 184: 13 dB-A/ 78 dB-A
Schoeps CCM 21 (for instance): 14 dB-A/ 80 dB-A

So you're going to put a KM184 inside your guitar? I've never heard of anyone doing that, but who knows? Might work.

But are you just looking at specs, or have you listened these side by side inside a guitar? The tiny electret mics do tend to be noisier than full sized capsules, 48 volt powered, but they're really for different purposes. For live use, you'd not hear the noise, and I'm not sure I'd hear a real difference recording, either. But I have tried recording with the 4061s and wasn't impressed with the sound compared to the Schoeps, Neumanns and Brauner's I use. It was ok, but nothing I'd choose. Inside the guitar, the 4061 works very well. I'd be interested in hearing your results with a KM184 inside the guitar, tho.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by EarlG

I need a system I can rely on for both live and live recording. I have no qualms with the 4061's quality, but the noise is very audible to me in quiet recorded passages.

I think you may have unusual requirements. Most people use external mics for recording, and what people are talking about here is live sound. I would not be happy with the sound of any internal mic for recording. Is there a reason you need to record with an internal mic?

[EarlG]

I'm going to first try a KM184A capsule with a LC4 cable. To me, the Schoeps is slightly more accurate but overall the 184 sounds better on acoustic. Technically, the 4061 should be okay at such high SPLs - but it has the potential to be noisy and I can't risk that. Besides, I can hear it at times and that really bugs me.

Just for comparison, I think the Baggs Anthem is significantly quieter than a 4061/ undersaddle combination.