Fishman Solo

[lodi_55]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Aloha,

I'll betcha the first time a Soloamp hits a loud, large, crowded room, no one outside of the first 20 feet will be able to hear anything coming from it.

Line array speaker systems simply cannot handle noisy crowds unless you get like 4 of them in series up on a raised stage. Hey, if the Bose can't handle that kind of dispersion requirement, do you think a Soloamp will? Somethin' to think about. I'll betcha. They're both gonna pan out to be nothing more than expensive toys!

alohachris

Hey Chris,

Is the assumption that we all want or need to play a large, loud crowded room? Those are the types of gigs that I try to stay away from. Although I had one last week (200 people, outside, loud) and the Bose did a good job. I think the sound suffered a little bit when we really cranked it, but was still as good, if not better, than many alternatives.

But hey.. It's not for everybody!

[MikeTX]

Aloha Chris,

Man, I've been using the Bose L1 for five years, in a fairly loud band, in some big rooms with several hundred people, and it's always filled the room. It also lets us play so softly that people can hold a conversation anywhere in the room including right in front of the band, when the situation calls for it.

My kind of toy!

I wouldn't think the SoloAmp is remotely intended for the kind of place and audience that you describe - mine is certainly not. That kind of crowd wouldn't go for the kind of music I play anyway, so I don't feel like I'm missing anything.

Feel free to use something else - different strokes...

[alohachris]

Aloha Mike,

I was just testing the waters to see if anyone has applied the Soloamp in a crowd yet, that's all.

You know, I just quit a gig which I had for almost two years. It was a very noisy, loud wine/cheese bar with hundreds of drunken cackling women and the bellowing men who chase them. It was in a large 100 by 60 ft room with 20' high ceilings and an open lanai.

They made me play through a single Bose II/T2/single sub system which sounded allright early or late in the night, before or after the crowds had left. But no one could hear a thing when the people were there. The dispersion of that line array system was almost non-existent in a crowd. I used that system almost 200 times so I'm qualified to have an opinion about it: it did not work for me. I've heard it sound decent (not great) in concert and party settings as well. But that's a lot of $ for decent, IMO.

Of course, the same will be more than true for the Soloamp when they finally get played in real life gigging situations. Ok in quiet settings, disappear in crowds.

That's why I ask, does your band set it up with more than one Bose tower in stereo? I could see that working. But it gets mighty expensive. Same for most giggers if you need to use a couple of Soloamps. $$$$

I use a Pendulum SPS-1/TC Electronics M2000/Parasound 2125/Daedalus 803 mini-PA system in stereo that has no dispersion problems in crowds. I played in one last night quite unexpectedly (a cruise ship deposited the masses on the pier here in Honolulu and they flooded my usually mellow Aloha Tower gig. I used that system in a large crowd for the first time. For a second, I had that small fear that it would not cut the mustard the way the Bose II was not able to. But that quickly passed.

Though exhausted from work (inventory all weekend), my system literally kicked okole (mine and the audiences). It's punch put some wind in my sails and energized my performance. I had one of my best nights playing in a long time and even the cheap Aussie tourists tipped?!? People always ask me about why it sounds so clear and natural? I tell 'em, "because it's not a Bose!"

So, I'm still fishing for some real experience here (I know it just came out) that can prove how versatile this new Soloamp will be in a variety of venues and crowds, that's all.

You should ask some real pros for opinions about the Bose system's sound. People like Ed Gerhard or Laurence Juber who must play through different systems every night. Both have written to me that they would prefer "not to comment in public about their true feelings about the Bose System." So how will the Soloamp fare?

alohachris

[sdelsolray]

I waiting to try out the SoloAmp. My semi-educated guess is that it use the same preamp and eq designed from the most recent Loudbox Series. The power amp is likely new, and the speaker array is certainly new. As a starting point, then, this thing should sound similar to a Fishman Loudbox. That's a good start, as the current Loudbox Series is very decent sonically. Fishman has generally used good designs with their power amps and speakers, and I would expect the SoloAmp to follow suit.

I would agree that a line array begins to fall down when things physically get in the way of the sound dispersion - people, tables, chairs, etc. Add competing ambient noise and things get a bit more dicey. Some frequencies are affected more than others which ends up coloring the sound further back in the room. I've seen many performers using the Bose line array, for example, where the bottom half of the array is below the sitting height of the audience. In essence, 1/2 of the system's output is compromised. The SoloAmp is raised off the ground, so it shouldn't suffer from this problem as much in most situations.

There is still some advantage to the throw weight of a good PA system. Of course, PA systems have disadvantages too.

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by alohachris

You should ask some real pros for opinions about the Bose system's sound. People like Ed Gerhard or Laurence Juber who must play through different systems every night.

Funny, I had to Google both of those names. At what point does someone move into the category of "real pro?" Is it time in the business, number of CDs sold, size of venues/audience, etc? I'm trying to move up from pseudo-pro to real pro so I'd like to know.

[Herb Hunter]

If I understand what is being said here, people standing in front of a line array block the sound, but when they stand in front of a conventional speaker they, somehow, don't block sound.

[rmyAddison]

Alohachris,

I wouldn't call your or sdelsolrays systems big noisy room venus systems either, nice, high quality, but not really "big room" to me; I have played professionally and done sound for 40 years, so I know a little too..........

I completely agree about the Bose, none of their products work for me. Judging the SoloAmp against the Bose just because they are line arrays is not enough "likeness" for me, the SoloAmp uses larger speakers and a compression tweeter and, as sdelsolray said, if it has a family resemblence to the Loudbox it will be a decent product "for it's intended use".

I don't play enough to warrant spending what I would if I gigged regularly ($7-10K when I was piecing together a system), and I think the SoloAmp has it's place. I would however buy two towers and set it up like a conventional PA, but I will wait to pass judgement until I have actually played and sang through one and tested it's bass response.

To me the SoloAmp is a solo/duo performer coffeehouse rig, not for bands, not for large noisy rooms. In it's element it may be a fine product at it's price point. Not everybody needs or can afford boutique rigs, the SoloAmp will have it's customer base, peace.

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

If I understand what is being said here, people standing in front of a line array block the sound, but when they stand in front of a conventional speaker they, somehow, don't block sound.

I would think they would block the sound of a conventional speaker too. But with a conventional PA, you can turn up the sound and blast away at people, play over the top of people talking, turn your monitor up and be convinced that your PA is still filling the room with sound.

Since the L1 sits behind you and you hear the same thing as the audience, a loud room can hinder your ability to hear the L1 too making a performer think that the line array has "failed" to fill a room.

If you are playing a loud bar and people are talking you can 1) try to swing their attention your way, 2) accept that at least for the time being that you are background music or 3) get in a volume war with them which will probably make them talk louder, move away from you or leave. In that case it won't matter what sound system you are using, you'll just be able to drive them away faster with a PA that you can really crank up.

As for the SoloAmp I think it's going to be sweet! I talked with a person who had the chance to compare a SoloAmp with an L1 and they said the SoloAmp out performed the L1 as far as coverage and dispersion when it was just an L1 (no B1s (bass cubes)) Once they added one B1 to the L1, the L1 over took the SoloAmp with regard to coverage and dispersion.

I agree with sdelsolray. If the sound quality is like the Loudbox with better dispersion this will be a very valuable tool!

Matt

[rmyAddison]

I am sure if the low end is found "wanting" by enough folks Fishman will be glad to sell bass modules for the SoloAmp, we'll see............

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by rmyAddison

I am sure if the low end is found "wanting" by enough folks Fishman will be glad to sell bass modules for the SoloAmp, we'll see............

If I end up getting a SoloAmp I was thinking of getting a little bass amp for my Porchboard. I wonder if there would be a way to put in some kind of crossover and send the low frequencies of the SoloAmp through the bass amp. That would be cool!

Matt

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

I would think they would block the sound of a conventional speaker too. But with a conventional PA, you can turn up the sound and blast away at people, play over the top of people talking, turn your monitor up and be convinced that your PA is still filling the room with sound....

That was my point: either sound source can be blocked by the audience. Nevertheless, one sound source disperses sound better than the other and both conventional and line arrays can be elevated above the crowd unless, of course, the ceiling height matches that of Liverpool's Cavern.

...I talked with a person who had the chance to compare a SoloAmp with an L1 and they said the SoloAmp out performed the L1 as far as coverage and dispersion when it was just an L1 (no B1s (bass cubes)) Once they added one B1 to the L1, the L1 over took the SoloAmp with regard to coverage and dispersion. ...

How could extending the bass response improve L1 dispersion? The bass module is not part of the array so any frequencies below 180 Hz do not benefit from the array's dispersion characteristics and, of course, the bass module is not going to have any effect on the dispersion of frequencies reproduced by the array.

There is some question as to whether the SoloAmp is a true line array. Even if it is one, the line array effect would cease at the 4 kHz crossover point as all frequencies above that are handled by a single tweeter. Also, since, the 4-inch drivers are called upon to reproduce frequencies up to 4 kHz, any frequencies above 3.35 kHz will be beamed rather than propagated at the wider angle of frequencies below that. (If the wavelength of a frequency is less than the driver's diameter, a beaming effect can be expected.)Then there is the short length of the column to consider. It could be that the SoloAmp is more pleasing to the ear but it appears to be physically constrained from achieving the dispersion of the L1.

[jstancil]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

If I end up getting a SoloAmp I was thinking of getting a little bass amp for my Porchboard. I wonder if there would be a way to put in some kind of crossover and send the low frequencies of the SoloAmp through the bass amp. That would be cool!

Matt

I was thinking about this too, since I might buy two and DJ with them. There are a number of powered amps out there that have internal crossovers, you can run the signal into the sub, then use the high pass output to send along the upper range to the solo. course most of the powered subs range from 15" to 18" and the lightest I have seen so far is 79lbs.

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

If I end up getting a SoloAmp I was thinking of getting a little bass amp for my Porchboard. I wonder if there would be a way to put in some kind of crossover and send the low frequencies of the SoloAmp through the bass amp. That would be cool!

Matt

An active crossover like this one would do the job.

https://www.carvinguitars.com/produc...product=XC3000

[rmyAddison]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

If I end up getting a SoloAmp I was thinking of getting a little bass amp for my Porchboard. I wonder if there would be a way to put in some kind of crossover and send the low frequencies of the SoloAmp through the bass amp. That would be cool!

Matt

You can use a line out from the SoloAmp to a subwoofer with built in crossover, even though the tower is not directly in the crossover chain you would have enought control with the sub crossover to get a good transition.

[ohwell]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

There is some question as to whether the SoloAmp is a true line array. Even if it is one, the line array effect would cease at the 4 kHz crossover point as all frequencies above that are handled by a single tweeter. Also, since, the 4-inch drivers are called upon to reproduce frequencies up to 4 kHz, any frequencies above 3.35 kHz will be beamed rather than propagated at the wider angle of frequencies below that. (If the wavelength of a frequency is less than the driver's diameter, a beaming effect can be expected.)Then there is the short length of the column to consider. It could be that the SoloAmp is more pleasing to the ear but it appears to be physically constrained from achieving the dispersion of the L1.

The effectiveness of the single tweeter WRT the line array features is something I have a question about as well. IIRC from one of the original soloamp threads, 'Jack', the purported originator of the soloamp design said his design didn't even require a tweeter.

I'm not too bothered by the short length of the column. I think should be able to get it to a point where it's firing near ear level for most everybody in the room. I'd rather have a one-trip setup that can be positioned near head height over a multi-trip setup that shoots sound at kneecaps and thighs.