fingerstyle question

[rick-slo]

To play with musical feeling it helps to think about the contained musical phrases (https://hellomusictheory.com/learn/p...:%20Definition).

Some music is not much phrase dependent but plows straight forward (a lot of ragtime and Travis pattern picking for example) and there your main
task is having the melody line stand out from the other notes and keeping your tempo accurate.

Other music can be quite emotive. There the volume of individual notes in a phrase and fluctuating alterations in tempo may be quite important and effective.

Listening to more emotive musical pieces and trying to pick up on what the performer is doing to increase the impact of the music likely with help
you apply those same things in your performances.

[TBman]

Learn just the melody first of a few measures, but use the fingering that is appropriate as if you were playing the rest of the notes. Make that flow and sound musical. Then add the rest of the notes a bit at a time, working on the "sticky" points until your fingers fall off.

The "I'll work on that part more later" mindset just slows down the learning process.

[Merlemantel]

Originally Posted by TBman

Learn just the melody first of a few measures, but use the fingering that is appropriate as if you were playing the rest of the notes. Make that flow and sound musical. Then add the rest of the notes a bit at a time, working on the "sticky" points until your fingers fall off.

The "I'll work on that part more later" mindset just slows down the learning process.

This advice you've given me before, and now I really need to take it to heart. Thanks

Oh, and.... I am working on that gorgeous Ribera piece, which will work on my steel string because it has lots of sustain. But the fingerings on that last part, that sweeps up to the 8-10 frets, has me stumped. Did you just work out the fingerings for that phrase on your own?

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by Merlemantel

Hello, thank you for reading, and commenting, should you do that.

I am learning to play fingerstyle, not travis picking, but more of classical technique, on steel string. For example, the method you would use to play Blackbird, or Long and Winding Road, just the first two that come to mind. I've recorded myself, and while I am hitting the right notes and rhythms, my playing isn't what I would hope for in terms of musicality. There is a quality of each note being plunked out, without a sense of line. If you play fingerstyle, what would you suggest I work on to get past this hurdle. I am picky, so the way Im playing might be okay to some ears, but not to mine. I was a vocal performance major in college, where I had the importance of line burned into my brain. The way I am playing does not have the quality of forward momentum that I want to hear. I am playing as if every note in the chord, or line, had equal importance, and that makes it sound robotic. Any suggestions from people who are expert in this way of playing, much appreciated.

Merle, In my humble opinion, the fact that you are currently dissatisfied with this aspect of your melody playing signifies your sensitivity to the subtlety of "lilt" (?) or expression says a great deal.

That very awareness of it tells me that you will master this aspect,and probably by yourself.

I am NOT an expert in formal fingerstyle (I only use index finger and thumb) so I'm probably not the mentor that you seek, but willing to have a go.

Honestly, I think that you'll develop your own style of expression in melody.

Keep at it!

[zuzu]

[QUOTE=TBman;7331296]Learn just the melody first of a few measures, but use the fingering that is appropriate as if you were playing the rest of the notes. Make that flow and sound musical. Then add the rest of the notes a bit at a time, working on the "sticky" points until your fingers fall off.

I did this a lot learning bluegrass banjo. The melody is supreme in bluegrass, and even when you are playing a break the suggestion of the melody is important...generally.

The exercise described by TBman helped me a lot.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Merlemantel

This advice you've given me before, and now I really need to take it to heart. Thanks

Oh, and.... I am working on that gorgeous Ribera piece, which will work on my steel string because it has lots of sustain. But the fingerings on that last part, that sweeps up to the 8-10 frets, has me stumped. Did you just work out the fingerings for that phrase on your own?

Measures 38 to 40 do have some fingerings in the notation. I'm not sure if I followed them exactly.

[Merlemantel]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

I am working on a song right now that is new to me and trying to get the right feel and musicality.

I realized after I got off the AGF after responding once on this thread that I have another technique that I use to help me. I almost always go to YouTube and play with the original recording and sort of let the original artist teach me his or her feel to the song. Playing with the original recording can really help us learn the secrets of others without their ever knowing you were borrowing from them.

But just because I learn to play with the original recording doesn't mean I am locked into that way of playing. Once I start playing the song or piece on my own, I always end up adapting the song or piece to my own personality and playing strengths. Presumably, you will, too.

- Glenn

Hi Glenn, you commented on my use of the term "line" in an earlier post - I suppose it is a voice thing, very familiar to me, but not so much to guitarists. Also, before I say more, I find your playing to be very musical and sensitive, so I am trying to learn to do what you do so well. That said, I thought you might enjoy listening to this beautiful choral arrangement of Shenandoah. It opens with a unison line in the female voices. What you hear in that line is what I mean by line. There is a sense of the music going somewhere. A horizontal momentum instead of a verticality. Barry, TBman's, advice to work on the melody apart from the other notes until it sings (my words not his) is exactly right, and as soon as I get off AGF, I am going to work using Barry's advice. But for now, here is this piece to listen to, mostly because I know you will love it. - Leesa https://youtu.be/m8yBPMrlz9w?si=5JIkyY90wW1qnofq

[doctone]

Hm... difficult. From your question it is clear that you know what a musical line ("Phrasierung" in german) is. You talk about singing, and this is what it is about. The goal is to play exactly like you would sing it.
You need to get your fingers on autopilot. My advice would be to try to break the line down into groups of 3-4 notes and connect them afterwards. Try to enjoy the sound. You may try to sing the entire line and play your 3 notes over it when they come around. Then 4 or 5 or 2 bars.. slowly and repeatedly of course. But I think you know that already.
Sorry, I'm not a teacher. FWIW

[rick-slo]

As an example of what I was talking about in my prior post, this is a composition of mine in the emotive vein - tempo and volume changes to fit the feeling I had about different parts of the piece and the phrases. Some of my other compositions are more straight forward in these regards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G-YQA_bsOU

[Merlemantel]

Originally Posted by TBman

Measures 38 to 40 do have some fingerings in the notation. I'm not sure if I followed them exactly.

I'll check. Thanks

[Merlemantel]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

As an example of what I was talking about in my prior post, this is a composition of mine in the emotive vein - tempo and volume changes to fit the feeling I had about different parts of the piece and the phrases. Some of my other compositions are more straight forward in these regards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G-YQA_bsOU

Derek, please allow me to gush just a little bit. I love your playing. Every time I see something of yours on the forum I go right for it. I am certain you have inspired lots of us, not just me.

[Merlemantel]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

Merle, In my humble opinion, the fact that you are currently dissatisfied with this aspect of your melody playing signifies your sensitivity to the subtlety of "lilt" (?) or expression says a great deal.

That very awareness of it tells me that you will master this aspect,and probably by yourself.

I am NOT an expert in formal fingerstyle (I only use index finger and thumb) so I'm probably not the mentor that you seek, but willing to have a go.

Honestly, I think that you'll develop your own style of expression in melody.

Keep at it!

Thank you SM, this really helped, seriously. Thank you

[Charlie Bernstein]

Heh heh. A friend of mine had a banjo instruction book. There was a box at the bottom of page 8 that said, "How do you get that fast, clean sound? Answer on page 34."

A box on 34 said, "Answer: Practice!"

It works for guitar, too.

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by Merlemantel

Hi Glenn, you commented on my use of the term "line" in an earlier post - I suppose it is a voice thing, very familiar to me, but not so much to guitarists. Also, before I say more, I find your playing to be very musical and sensitive, so I am trying to learn to do what you do so well. That said, I thought you might enjoy listening to this beautiful choral arrangement of Shenandoah. It opens with a unison line in the female voices. What you hear in that line is what I mean by line. There is a sense of the music going somewhere. A horizontal momentum instead of a verticality. Barry, TBman's, advice to work on the melody apart from the other notes until it sings (my words not his) is exactly right, and as soon as I get off AGF, I am going to work using Barry's advice. But for now, here is this piece to listen to, mostly because I know you will love it. - Leesa https://youtu.be/m8yBPMrlz9w?si=5JIkyY90wW1qnofq

Hi Leesa,

Yes, that choral version of Shenandoah was beautifully done. There is an ebb and flow to that song when done well, where the phrasing is so important. That choir did a lovely job on this sweet arrangement. Years ago when my wife and I lived in Plano, north of Dallas, a whole bunch of the professors from that college lived all around us. I'm pretty sure Don Henley went to the U. of N. TX.

I noticed that not long into the piece many of the choir members were moving with the music, really into the flow of the piece. My son and two daughters were all in great high school and college choirs and they never could stand still, always feeling the music physically like that. It was cool to see.

My oldest son is a choral conductor was well as a composer and he leads music like that. So I understand what you are getting at.

Sometimes I have to listen to a piece of music in my head so that I can imagine and idealize how I want it to sound. Then I can work on making what I hear in my head somehow happen in the physical world.

Thanks, Glenn

[Merlemantel]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Hi Leesa,

Yes, that choral version of Shenandoah was beautifully done. There is an ebb and flow to that song when done well, where the phrasing is so important. That choir did a lovely job on this sweet arrangement. Years ago when my wife and I lived in Plano, north of Dallas, a whole bunch of the professors from that college lived all around us. I'm pretty sure Don Henley went to the U. of N. TX.

I noticed that not long into the piece many of the choir members were moving with the music, really into the flow of the piece. My son and two daughters were all in great high school and college choirs and they never could stand still, always feeling the music physically like that. It was cool to see.

My oldest son is a choral conductor was well as a composer and he leads music like that. So I understand what you are getting at.

Sometimes I have to listen to a piece of music in my head so that I can imagine and idealize how I want it to sound. Then I can work on making what I hear in my head somehow happen in the physical world.

Thanks, Glenn

Hi Glenn
I am a UNT music alum! I was probably there about the same time you were.