I tried the Anthem ‘mod’ so you don’t have to!

[AeroUSA]

This was not very successful:

[SpruceTop]

Aaron, Thank you for doing this for us! Is there a gain pot on the Anthem preamp that controls the input signal from the Matrix? Another thing, I'd think the impedance of the Element and Matrix are about the same but are they? Did the tech check the impedance of both USTs?

[AeroUSA]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Aaron, Thank you for doing this for us! Is there a gain pot on the Anthem preamp that controls the input signal from the Matrix? Another thing, I'd think the impedance of the Element and Matrix are about the same but are they? Did the tech check the impedance of both USTs?

Thanks! The control is just for the mic, the under saddle is the problem. The tech did say to me today that it’s likely an impedance mismatch and someone else told me that the Element simply has a lower output and that is the reason why.

[guitaniac]

I had a similar problem when I substituted a Baggs LB6 for the Fishman pickup in a Fishman Prefix system. The LB6 overdrove the Prefix preamp to a severe extent.

One possible fix is to wire a certain size capacitor in parallel with the pickup. I can't tell you what size the cap should be, but I do recall that the Baggs folks supplied a cap for adapting the LB6 to their ribbon transducer preamp (back in the day when the ribbon transducer was their piezo film UST).

[guitaniac]

Even if the Fishman UST didn't overdrive the Anthem preamp, you'd still need to redo the process of putting the blender on the full "mic" setting and adjusting the mic gain for the best possible crossover blend. The UST signal level will depend on both the nature of the pickup itself and the mechanics of the installation.

[Petty1818]

I so wish that Baggs would update the Anthem to 18V. I played a gig two weeks ago and used the Seymour Duncan Wavelength. I was getting some of the most pleasing tones I ever had and this was with heavy strumming. It didn't have the quack and sounded warm and fat. I would love if the Element in the Anthem had the same tone.

As for Fishman, I am quite annoyed with the Matrix to be honest. The reason I put the Wavelength in is because the Matrix in the guitar was humming from a grounding issue. This is the third time I have had a Matrix UST hum. It's such a finicky pickup. I love that it doesn't impact the unplugged tone, but really wish they would shield it better. The foil is so easy to rip or separate from the UST.

[guitaniac]

With respect to the Wavelength, we have to give the late Rick Turner and his team their due for coming up with a very dynamically responsive UST system. I’ve always perceived it as having a “zippy” response to the touch.

[rb1591]

An experiment that has turned out very well for me is using a Baggs LB6 (rather than the element UST) with the Seymour Duncan Wavelength Duo. You might think the LB6 would overdrive the WL pre, but no. If fact, it’s my favorite system out of many (all the likely suspects) I’ve tried over the last 30+ years. FYI, I’m mostly a finger picker, and even when even when strumming I try to keep my attack on the light to medium side. I know that both those products are older tech, but I haven’t found anything significantly better for my use - either used together or alone.

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

Thanks! The control is just for the mic, the under saddle is the problem. The tech did say to me today that it’s likely an impedance mismatch and someone else told me that the Element simply has a lower output and that is the reason why.

Aaron,
I generally don’t use saddle transducers because it throws my timing off because the signal gets to the speaker before the top of the guitar, and I’ve noticed it since the 1970’s.

At that point I started using soundboard pickups, which while the location needs to be fussed with, I always preferred the tonality.

I actually took out the Anthem saddle transducer and substituted a Fishman SBT-E soundboard pickup, and the results were wonderful! No distortion at all.

You should try it.

Best,
Howard Emerson

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

Aaron,
I generally don’t use saddle transducers because it throws my timing off because the signal gets to the speaker before the top of the guitar, and I’ve noticed it since the 1970’s.

At that point I started using soundboard pickups, which while the location needs to be fussed with, I always preferred the tonality.

I actually took out the Anthem saddle transducer and substituted a Fishman SBT-E soundboard pickup, and the results were wonderful! No distortion at all.

You should try it.

Best,
Howard Emerson

Interesting. That's actually one thing I do really like about UST pickups. I find in a live setting, I need that immediate attack. A SBT is pretty immediate as well, but I find it takes me some time to get use to a bit of the delay.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by rb1591

An experiment that has turned out very well for me is using a Baggs LB6 (rather than the element UST) with the Seymour Duncan Wavelength Duo. You might think the LB6 would overdrive the WL pre, but no. If fact, it’s my favorite system out of many (all the likely suspects) I’ve tried over the last 30+ years. FYI, I’m mostly a finger picker, and even when even when strumming I try to keep my attack on the light to medium side. I know that both those products are older tech, but I haven’t found anything significantly better for my use - either used together or alone.

This is quite interesting. The Baggs folks have mentioned that they experimented with matching the LB6 with the Anthem mic, but found the Element to be a better match. From this post I can infer that the LB6 does indeed blend pretty well with the Wavelength Duo's on board mic.

Thanks for the info.

[mondoslug]

On a side note...how was the saddle height afterwards, could you notice a difference? The Fishman's thicker isn't it?

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

This is quite interesting. The Baggs folks have mentioned that they experimented with matching the LB6 with the Anthem mic, but found the Element to be a better match. From this post I can infer that the LB6 does indeed blend pretty well with the Wavelength Duo's on board mic.

Thanks for the info.

I think that's a bit of a lie. Lloyd has said many times that the reason they love and use the Element is because it's so reliable. It can even go at a 90 degree angle when coming out of the bottom of the saddle and still work.

The LB6 on the other hand requires modding the saddle slot. I wanted to try one once but found out that the LB6 was longer than my saddle slot. To me, this is a company that wants reliability vs. potentially a bit better tone but at the expense of having a more difficult installation.

I know it does work well with the Anthem mic as the Godin Doyle Dykes guitar has the LB6/Tru-mic combo in it.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I think that's a bit of a lie. Lloyd has said many times that the reason they love and use the Element is because it's so reliable. It can even go at a 90 degree angle when coming out of the bottom of the saddle and still work.

The LB6 on the other hand requires modding the saddle slot. I wanted to try one once but found out that the LB6 was longer than my saddle slot. To me, this is a company that wants reliability vs. potentially a bit better tone but at the expense of having a more difficult installation.

I know it does work well with the Anthem mic as the Godin Doyle Dykes guitar has the LB6/Tru-mic combo in it.

I really like the feedback resistance and the even string volume balance of the LB6. For that reason, I briefly considered matching an LB6 with the Lyric system in one of my guitars. I thought perhaps there might be a phase cancelation problem with a Lyric/LB6 combo, but your point makes a lot of sense. Perhaps installation convenience is the real issue, or at least the primary issue.

[rb1591]

Guitaniac, I have two dreadnaughts, one with an out-of-the-box Wavelength Duo and the other with the Wavelength Duo/LB6 combo. The difference is what you might expect – the one with the LB6 is more responsive, balanced, warm, and has better string definition. I don’t know about an LB6-based Anthem, but I can tell you the Wavelength Duo definitely works.

Petty 1818, I’ve owned several guitars with the LB6 and yes, increasing the saddle slot width and length is added trouble and expense. I’m told it’s not that difficult for an experience luthier with the right tools and know-how, however, it is not a job for an amateur installer, even an experienced amateur like myself. Wish someone made a drop-in LB6 style pickup, but there's probably not much market for it. I ask Caleb on the Baggs forum about that. His response: "Unfortunately, the Piezo sensors themselves are not effective when thinned out enough for a 3/32" saddle. I'm sure you can imagine, if a 3/32" LB6 was possible, we would have done it by now. If I remember correctly, Lloyd did some tests with other types of Piezos in LB-housings, but all of the LB6 magic was lost in the process."