Help with G & B string harmonic overtone overkill

[kcboy]

Hi,
I just purchased a brand new (very expensive) guitar (best not to name), and am disappointed with having too much overtones on the OPEN G and B strings.
The impression was it was noisy, fuzzy, unclean, metallic annoying overtone.

When check with Spectrum meter, its showing that my
open G string (196Hz) drops off quickly within 1 sec, and overtaken by 393 Hz overtone (the natural harmonic), which then lasts forever.
Similar on Open B string, the 246 Hz drops off within 1-2 secs, and overtaken by 492Hz which then also last very very long.
When the open B and G are played together, all hell breaks loose and harmonics fly everywhere!

When I put a capo on, the problem mostly disappears.
Also if the B and G note are played on lower strings, then the harmonic problem isn't as pronounced.
Also no other problems with any other strings and up the fret beyond open string.

Anyone else have this problem and any obvious ways to solve this?
If not, this guitar is going back to the store.... which is a shame because I really love the tone of the guitar otherwise, so i really hope i can solve this.
I tried Elixer 80/20 and Phosphor Bronze, but same problem, so not strings.

[kcboy]

Could this possibly the sound of a "factory new" guitar?
or new strings? (this is fresh out of box from factory).

[rick-slo]

Probably sympathetic vibrations of other strings. Damp off the other strings when picking the G string and again when picking the B string and see what you hear then.

[Scott of the Sa]

could the nut slots be just a hair too deep on those two strings causing some "buzz" on the 1st fret. If that is the case you can put a piece of paper in the slot and see if the noise stops.

[kcboy]

Thanks for replies.

1) dampening other strings does not reduce this effect. Its purely coming from the single plucked string. I suspect its the multitude of natural harmonics on the string. So I can't really "mute" it in the pieces i'm feeling this on, the fundamental note is needed.

2) its not a fret buzz.

[rick-slo]

On a spectrum meter the fundamental usually does show as weaker than the first overtone. Probably is low nut slots as Scott suggested .

[Bax Burgess]

The two nut slots may be poorly/unevenly filed. Getting those 'cleaned up' would be a good start.

[Italuke]

Had the same problem. Saddle needed some smoothing, shaping. Take it to a GOOD tech.

[Wild Bill Jones]

Have you tried different gauge strings; say lite to mediums? One guitar I have liked mediums with .012 and .015, first and second strings. Another guitar I have wants a bit heavier G string ( up one thousandth) with the rest of the strings standard medium gauges. It had a peculiar sound on that 3rd string before the change.
Strings are cheap ( well maybe not Thomasik’s).
Guess you could check the compensation on the saddle too. I imagine the luthiers on the form know more about that than me. Good luck.

[kcboy]

Thanks for the replies, and very good suggestions.

The guitar have no compensation. Yes this is a pretty high end guitar in the $3000-4000 price range. Not sure why its not compensated, maybe intonation is already good when fretted (sounds good to the ear). I haven't checked with a meter.

And the nut is pretty flat and level to the tuners. Maybe there isn't enough angle.

Unfortunately if i'm going to have it modified, i won't be able to return it. Though choices.

[Awfulguitarnois]

Originally Posted by kcboy

Unfortunately if i'm going to have it modified, i won't be able to return it. Though choices.

I personally feel a guitar in that range shouldn't have this problem. I'd return it instead of having someone work on it.

[Lillis]

+1. There’s no reason to have to deal with that on a high end guitar. Or any other for that matter.

[Kittoon]

If it were me, I would repeat the test with a fresh set of strings and a bit of lubricant at the contact points.
-I simply use pencil lead. (I tried the clear oil/gel type and while it doesn’t discolor the nut like pencil lead, the gooeyness is kind of a mess)

-Perhaps you have already tried fresh strings. Good bad or ugly, I would bet it’s the nut/setup.

[kcboy]

**** PROBLEM SOLVED! THANKS EVERYONE FOR INPUTS AND SUGGESTIONS! ****

I'm glad to announce that the problem is SOLVED, and the guitar now sounds amazing as it should be.

The giveaway was that the guitar only sounds bad on open strings, and sounds beautiful when capo'ed or fretted. So, this narrowed it down to the nut (yes as many of you have done an amazing job pointing this out!), or area behind the nut.

When I removed the string to inspect the nut slots, there were extremely uneven and rough on the insides of the slot. I folded up a 600 grit sand paper and gave it a few passes until it feels smooth (yes very fine as i'm only looking to smoothen rather than enlarge).
I then added some pencil lead, repositioned the strings, and viola, the metallic fuzzy noise coming from the E and B strings completely disappeared! All that is left is beautiful harmonic overtones, as it should be! no fuzzy overtones.

When checked with a spectrum meter, the fundamental notes for E and B open string now holds very good sustain 5-6 seconds before dropping off (as compared to 1-2 seconds before).

This is likely a "new guitar" symptom, as i'm sure the nut slots would have smoothen out over time with playing anyway as the contact surfaces are in constant abrasion. Perhaps this is one of the factor contributing towards having a well aged well played in sound, other than the more often quoted wood drying and vibration loosening of wood fibers.

In anycase, many thanks to the AGF members that have put in your opinions. Definitely helped.

Cheers, kc.

[kcboy]

Originally Posted by Bax Burgess

The two nut slots may be poorly/unevenly filed. Getting those 'cleaned up' would be a good start.

Yes, it was exactly this!