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#16
02-26-2021, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
. The simple reason , stated, that I went for 12 fret guitars, is that the original Martin 12 fret designs had wider fretboards, which suited me and my playing style better than the now, more common thinner ones. However, there is a reason for this which may not have been discussed as yet. Why was there this relatively sudden change of style ? It was the mid/late '20s. Popular music was changing. Jazz and dance band music was changing from dixieland to swing. Most bands had a tenor, or plectrum banjo player in the rhythm section, but those times were passing, and swing didn't need banjos .... guitars worked better. Gibson archtops were getting the gigs. The banjo players needed to change from their four string instruments to guitars, so a guy called Perry Bechtel asked Martin to design their largest guitar (the 000) with a thinner neck, and 15 frets clear of the body. Martin compromised with 14 frets. It was called the Orchestra Model (OM), introduced in, I think, 1929. but it wasn't a great success and was discontinued in 1933. Banjo players liked hte thin necks as they only played three or fur strings at a time. (think Freddie Green). However, Martin had made an even larger guitar for one retailer called Ditson (who went out of business in 1929) but Martin introduced it as the "dreadnought" in 1931, it was a 12 fret and a great design, but it failed. In 1934 Martin tried the same trick with the dreadnought by reducing the body length and making it a 14 fretter. It was also, initially called an OM, aimed at the same market. The flat top guitar had changed from a fingerstyle instrument to a rhythm instrument, just not in dance bands. However, other musuic genres were burgeoning in the '30s aided with radio and phonograhs. It was various types of "folk" music. People played what they could get, and they got dreads. Rhythm guitars.
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Silly Moustache, Just an old Limey acoustic guitarist, Dobrolist, mandolier and singer. I'm here to try to help and advise and I offer one to one lessons/meetings/mentoring via Zoom! Last edited by Silly Moustache; 02-27-2021 at 05:23 AM. 
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#17
02-26-2021, 09:45 PM
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Whether due to the nature of the design or the intent of the builder, 12-fret guitars tend to have a fatter tone in my experience. I like it. If you like clarity, separation, complex chords, it might not be your thing.
They do have less neck to play with. Something to keep in mind if you like to play over an octave on a string or if you use a capo.
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#18
02-27-2021, 05:31 AM
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In my experience there is negligible tonal variance in 12 or 14 fret dreads.
However the positioning of the bridge on 12s tends to place the picking hand right over the "sweet spot" but, of course forearms vary in length. The 12 fret design is somewhqt more ergonomic - less left arm extension better picking hand position, and of course often slotted headstocks -easier access to tuners. Martins seem to have dropped all their original 12 fret designs now, but Collings offer a great alternative and in comparing a Collings 14 fret D1 and a 12 fret DS1 would yield little tonal variance -apart from that gained by better ergonomics. And as we know two identical Martins of the same age played side my side can soun very different. Collings are more consistent, but every instrument of every make is an individual.
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Silly Moustache, Just an old Limey acoustic guitarist, Dobrolist, mandolier and singer. I'm here to try to help and advise and I offer one to one lessons/meetings/mentoring via Zoom!
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#19
02-27-2021, 08:39 AM
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Hey Silly - we all hear things differently, but to my ear the differences between 12/14 fret dreads are much more large than say comparing a D-18 versus a D-28. Have a listen to this video for a back-to-back D-18S/D-18 comparison.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2YPZ2fwMEs
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#20
02-27-2021, 10:09 AM
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Very interesting thread !!!
I was used to look at 12 vs 14 fretters as a compromise between shorter neck and playability vs opportunity to play octave scale at twelfth fret. Cutaway could get into the equation... I learned in this thread that there would be two schools here. Compared to a fourteen fretter, a twelve fretter may be done two ways : - shorter neck with the bridge more centered on the lower bout with same scale; - shorter neck AND fret intervals with same bridge location resulting in shorter scale. So, the first one could be thought as a way to enhance sound production, while the other would result in less tension on strings. But what I do not understand is the price difference say on a "regular" Taylor 322 vs a 322 twelve frets : Marketting only ? As V-class ? I love my 14 frets 322.
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Needed some nylons, a wide range of acoustics and some weirdos to be happy...
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#21
03-01-2021, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
A 12 fret dread will NOT have a shorter scale than a 14 fret - but it meets the (slightly longer) body at the 12th fret. The original dreadnought body shape was designed for a retail customer of Martins called Ditson, and very few were sold as, frankly it was ahead of its time. Ditson went uot of business in 1929, and Martin introduced their ownbranded version oin 1931. Although an excellent design, it still didn't sell well, as many, I'm told, thought it was just too big (the 12 fret 000 had been the largest Martin from 1902 to 1931 Music styles were changing and Martin thought that their market was for banjo players so made the neck 2 frets proud of a sqyuished body shape and reduced the width on the fretboard. The important difference between the two designs in the width of the fretboard, not the fret to body relationship. I know nothing about Taylor guitars.
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Silly Moustache, Just an old Limey acoustic guitarist, Dobrolist, mandolier and singer. I'm here to try to help and advise and I offer one to one lessons/meetings/mentoring via Zoom!
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