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  #1  
Old 02-12-2021, 10:37 AM
NormanKliman NormanKliman is offline
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Default Real flamenco: Agustín Carbonell, “el Bola” plays bulería in rondeña tuning

I posted this in the Listen subforum a couple of weeks ago. I don’t know why, but it didn’t get a single response, so I’m trying here to see if anyone likes it. Criticism is okay, too.
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Old 02-13-2021, 06:32 PM
ceciltguitar ceciltguitar is offline
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I like it! Thank you for sharing this.
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Old 02-13-2021, 10:04 PM
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rick-slo rick-slo is offline
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Just not into flamenco unless there is a pretty girl dancing to look at.
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Old 02-14-2021, 10:27 AM
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VERY NICE! Thanks for bringing the music to this thread.

My only complaint is that it seems a little heavy on the clapping--too much and too loud--but that might just be me. It seems to me that the clapping gets in the way of some incredibly good guitar play.
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Old 02-15-2021, 02:04 AM
NormanKliman NormanKliman is offline
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Thanks guys, I thought some of you might like it. Except that horndog Derek, who just wants to look at pretty girls.
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Old 02-16-2021, 01:22 PM
redir redir is offline
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Interesting. I had to look that up and found that the tuning is D, A, D, F-sharp, B, E. It's kind of like a drop D lute tuning.
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Old 02-16-2021, 07:08 PM
ceciltguitar ceciltguitar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanB View Post
VERY NICE! Thanks for bringing the music to this thread.

My only complaint is that it seems a little heavy on the clapping--too much and too loud--but that might just be me. It seems to me that the clapping gets in the way of some incredibly good guitar play.
+ 1. I felt the same way when listening.
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Old 02-17-2021, 05:36 AM
NormanKliman NormanKliman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redir View Post
Interesting. I had to look that up and found that the tuning is D, A, D, F-sharp, B, E. It's kind of like a drop D lute tuning.
My first post in the listen sub-forum has all that information. I thought it would be too much to post it all again. Here’s a link.

As you’ll see there, the clapping isn’t just a steady stream of eighth notes. There are accents on certain beats and lots of other nuances, so it’s usually about that loud in the mix, depending on where you’re sitting at the party.

Glad you guys like his playing. I’ve been hesitant to post about flamenco in this classical sub-forum because the only reason to do so is its description of being about nylon-string guitar. Historically, there’s been a stupid rivalry between flamenco and classical. The two extremes are still kind of irreconcilable, but things have come a long way since Paco de Lucía and I’ll be posting more videos and audios here in the future.
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Old 02-17-2021, 10:34 AM
ceciltguitar ceciltguitar is offline
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Many of the traditional Flamenco forms have a rhythm structure based upon a rhythmic unit called a “compas”, which consists of 12 beats.

Here is a website that does a good job of explaining the structure of compas for some of the most common flamenco forms:

http://www.compas-flamenco.com/en/palos.html
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Old 02-17-2021, 10:47 AM
redir redir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanKliman View Post
My first post in the listen sub-forum has all that information. I thought it would be too much to post it all again. Here’s a link.

As you’ll see there, the clapping isn’t just a steady stream of eighth notes. There are accents on certain beats and lots of other nuances, so it’s usually about that loud in the mix, depending on where you’re sitting at the party.

Glad you guys like his playing. I’ve been hesitant to post about flamenco in this classical sub-forum because the only reason to do so is its description of being about nylon-string guitar. Historically, there’s been a stupid rivalry between flamenco and classical. The two extremes are still kind of irreconcilable, but things have come a long way since Paco de Lucía and I’ll be posting more videos and audios here in the future.
Yeah it seems emotions always get riled up when discussing flamenco and Classical. It's all good music to me.

I have a Paco de Lucia recording and I can hear in the video that you posted a very familiar sound to his recording so I wonder if he was using that tuning as well. I've seen a few flamenco shows including one in Spain and I love it. It's just a fantastic form all round.
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Old 02-17-2021, 11:49 AM
NormanKliman NormanKliman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redir View Post
...I have a Paco de Lucia recording and I can hear in the video that you posted a very familiar sound to his recording so I wonder if he was using that tuning as well...
Probably so, please post a title or video or something if you come across it.

This is the recording of rondeñas that made the tuning popular. The guitarist is Ramón Montoya Salazar, sort of a Paco de Lucía of the early 20th century. I'm not sure right now when it was made; I think in the 1930s. It seems very likely that Ramón "invented" this tuning and at least one "new" key (mineras).

There are plenty of YouTube videos of people playing this. Agustín (the guy in the first video) is one of them, but I'm not here to promote him. Paco de Lucía's "Doblan campanas" quotes this recording. He and others popularized the use of the tuning in other styles, although that kind of thing was going on in the 1950s, as well, and Ramón Montoya even used it to accompany singing in one recording.

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