Dealing with playing gigs with really low volume

[L20A]

Originally Posted by JackB1

Next time in this situation, I am going to try positioning my speaker directly behind me at ear level. If that doesn't do the trick, I'll try a monitor next.

Turn your PA to you and let it be your monitor.
Feedback should not be an issue as low as they want you to play.

[DetroitDave]

Originally Posted by Earthworm

(snip)

Now having said that, I always try to manage my volume. The audience should be able to talk at their tables without straining.

My wife and I met for dinner this past weekend at a smallish (about 70 seats) restaurant. There was a singer guitarist set up and playing. Our seating was a few tables from him. but it didn't matter; we could not hear each other talk.

The performer was good, and I always hate to say something to management, as I don't want anybody to get in trouble or lose a gig.

But I doubt my wife and I will go there again on a night he is performing, as we can't hear each other talk.

[Chipotle]

Allow me to inject some actual relevant, practical content into this thread. A couple weeks ago I played a very small bar--I mean, the size of a living room with the bar taking up a good chunk of that. Maybe 15-18 people there. I had a single QSC K10.2 speaker just behind me, pretty much right in my ear as it were, and not up loud at all. At times I could hear my acoustic about as much from the guitar as from the speakers. I could hear guitar and voice just fine, and so could the patrons, but as you'll hear in the video below, plenty quiet enough that people could talk. I could easily have made it even quieter and still heard myself.

So, JackB1, something like this setup might be just your ticket (the video is a song with electric guitar, but applies to acoustic as well):

[merlin666]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

You have an acoustic guitar. You have an acoustic voice.

.....you could play "acoustic" !!!!!

LOL I was at a retreat this weekend with about 15 people and in the evening I played a few songs. One of the organizers thought I was way too loud... I only play unamplified.

[DavidE]

Originally Posted by Methos1979

Wow! I mean WOW! This is just brilliant. And it's not something I would have thought of doing but I can see where this would work great. You get the benefit of direct sound coming at you while filling the space with reflective sound that doesn't overpower a small venue/room. I'm filing this for future reference. Bravo! And even more kudos for volunteering.

It's the best gig I ever had. No paying gig is more meaningful. I played last Wednesday and today and will play again in 2 weeks. I'm a cancer survivor and anything I can do to improve someone's day in the hospital means more to me than anything.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by russchapman

The problem is: HE CAN'T HEAR HIMSELF! over the din of the room. It's a technical problem that requires a technical solution, not a continuous barrage of commentary about musicians, venues, gigs, other career paths, the good old days of being unplugged, etc...

It's about monitoring, plain and (not always so) simple.

Actually it appears that is only one of three problems.

#1 the venue does not want the sound of music being over the sound of the audience. For which the answer is do what the customer wants of don't play there.

# 2 yes as you note the OP said he could not hear his own playing over the audience noise and as you mention a technical issue (which can probably be solved by placing the speaker behind himself )

#3 However the OP , in a subsequent post the OP also stated when unamplified he strains his voice trying to hear it over the sound of his guitar , which is something that is not an electronic technical problem, but is a basic performance technique imbalance issue, and should be addressed before addressing the technical side. Which is what Bob seemed to be speaking about.

[russchapman]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Actually that is only one of three problems.

#1 the venue does not want the sound of music being over the sound of the audience. For which the answer is do what the customer wants of don't play there.

# 2 yes as you note the OP said he could not hear his own playing over the audience noise and as you mention a technical issue (which can probably be solved by placing the speaker behind himself )

#3 However the OP , in a subsequent post the OP also stated when unamplified he strains his voice trying to hear it over the sound of his guitar , which is something that is not an electronic technical problem, but is a basic performance technique imbalance issue, and should be addressed before addressing the technical side. Which is what Bob was addressing

Good point!

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by russchapman

#1: He turned down the volume. That problem was solved on site by turning a knob. Why revisit it?

#2: The problem that needs addressing- hearing yourself in a loud room.

#3: He's not playing the gig unplugged (and the fact that some people suggest he should is frankly not in line with the reality of playing a loud room). It's a whole different ballgame being plugged in- a game where the OP doesn't have to sing louder than his guitar. What if he played electric guitar? Would everyone say that the guitar is too quiet? No, because it's plugged in.

Again, the problem at hand is hearing yourself in a loud room.

In my experience , the problem still actually involves several issues.
If one develops a better basic balance unplugged, then that will help to address being able to hear yourself when plugged in and especially when playing at lower volumes in a louder room . And it will make the technical aspect easier to fix.

[CoffeeFan]

Originally Posted by KevWind

# 2 yes as you note the OP said he could not hear his own playing over the audience noise and as you mention a technical issue (which can probably be solved by placing the speaker behind himself )

This is not the way to go. Putting the speaker behind hm is inviting feedback...

[russchapman]

Originally Posted by KevWind

In my experience , the problem still actually involves several issues.
If one develops a better basic balance unplugged, then that will help to address being able to hear yourself when plugged in and especially when playing at lower volumes in a louder room . And it will make the technical aspect easier to fix.

You're right.

[russchapman]

Originally Posted by CoffeeFan

This is not the way to go. Putting the speaker behind hm is inviting feedback...

You're right.

[CoffeeFan]

Originally Posted by JackB1

I know you have to turn down....but how to make it more enjoyable for YOU?

I hate to be blunt, but your enjoyment isn't the owner's primary concern.

My band used to play a gig where we couldn't even get the entire band onto the "stage". The drums and amps made it there, but three of us had to stand on the dance floor to play. The bar never had more than a dozen people in it. The money we were paid was, in hindsight, pretty dismal.

The owner said he'd build a larger stage and never did. He said he'd advertise to get more people in. He never did. He said he'd start paying us more. He never did.

The gig was not enjoyable.

So we quit...

[russchapman]

Originally Posted by CoffeeFan

I hate to be blunt, but your enjoyment isn't the owner's primary concern.

My band used to play a gig where we couldn't even get the entire band onto the "stage". The drums and amps made it there, but three of us had to stand on the dance floor to play. The bar never had more than a dozen people in it. The money we were paid was, in hindsight, pretty dismal.

The owner said he'd build a larger stage and never did. He said he'd advertise to get more people in. He never did. He said he'd start paying us more. He never did.

The gig was not enjoyable.

So we quit...

Great story!

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by CoffeeFan

This is not the way to go. Putting the speaker behind hm is inviting feedback...

Not necessarily, While it can increase potential for feedback more so than being out in front of you , it actually it depends a lot on the room, type of speaker, the exact position (behind) and how much volume one is trying to get out of the speaker .
Placing it at or slightly above shoulder level and off to one side and slightly behind so as to get your head and shoulder blocking the direct line between the mic and the speaker, can often mitigate feedback issues and allow you to hear more. Especially in situations where you are being asked to keep it down. I used this technique a lot with both a column type speaker as well as a conventional 2 way PA speaker, for coffeehouse and bookstore etc. type gigs ,and in the 40 or 50 gigs I played like that, and feedback was seldom an issue. YMMV but that was my solution and it worked well .

[JackB1]

Yes I will work with speaker placement next time. I had it in the usual position.....up high and facing the crowd and a little in front of me. I will try a bit behind me and right at ear level and facing me some. Should help. I was just using one 10" powered speaker similar to your QSC.

Originally Posted by Chipotle

Allow me to inject some actual relevant, practical content into this thread. A couple weeks ago I played a very small bar--I mean, the size of a living room with the bar taking up a good chunk of that. Maybe 15-18 people there. I had a single QSC K10.2 speaker just behind me, pretty much right in my ear as it were, and not up loud at all. At times I could hear my acoustic about as much from the guitar as from the speakers. I could hear guitar and voice just fine, and so could the patrons, but as you'll hear in the video below, plenty quiet enough that people could talk. I could easily have made it even quieter and still heard myself.

So, JackB1, something like this setup might be just your ticket (the video is a song with electric guitar, but applies to acoustic as well):