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  #46  
Old 10-23-2019, 03:17 PM
jazzguy jazzguy is offline
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I’m so sorry to hear this. I had a Brook guitar get damaged sending to a nice AGF person, so I have personal experience with this with UPS. This is why I will never ship another Acoustic Guitar...period.

Prepare yourself, this is going to take some time...they will stall and delay. This took almost 3 months from start to finish for me to receive my check. You need to follow up, follow up, follow up. Take names and document EVERY interaction with UPS. But be respectful. They hold the cards. UPS uses a 3rd party to settle their claims. The “insurance” is NOT guaranteed and is misleading. It only gives you the right to make a claim. Here is how it will likely go down.

1. THey will initially deny the claim do to packaging etc.
2. You need to push back respectfully and confirm that the packaging was the hard cardboard etc.
3. They may offer to pay for the damage. You will need a letter from a Luthier. This is where I messed up, because they only paid me for the Luthier’s fee. What I should have done was had the Luthier also include the additional reduced value from selling a broken guitar. I.e. - if the guitar was worth $2K but now it is only worth $1.2K, and the Luthier fee is $500....then have the Luthier’s fee be $800 +$500, otherwise you are eating the cost of the decreased value.

Good luck and let me know if you have any additional questions.
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  #47  
Old 10-23-2019, 04:42 PM
tippy5 tippy5 is offline
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I never use UPS. I have sent out 100 guitars. I like Fedex. I always over package for over 2K$ guitars, inside the case, too. Remember boxes are tossed, leaned, dropped and stacked on top of... Do not think your box is strong if you are not willing to do this to your box after you complete packaging. Always shake the box to see if there is any movement and pack accordingly.

I had one guitar odyssey that was a horrible hit. SENT by USPS...a gibson Hummingbird only sent 300 miles away. It arrived to my buyer with a broken headstock and no external box damage.

I made insurance appeals to Washington DC. total black hole. As stated, they won't pay unless a box looks like it has severe damage externally. Plus you need before and after pics during wrapping and buyer pics.

After a year in appeals I went in to the USPS office and retrieved it. Then luthier repaired, and I had a $1K loss.

I chalk it up to gorillas with big boxes. Plus I suspect inside the G case a design flaw. The Gibson neck rest, headstock case cradling is only a couple inches wide providing a fulcrum point for impact instead of 6" wide plus for safety.

Last edited by tippy5; 10-25-2019 at 11:10 AM.
  #48  
Old 10-23-2019, 04:49 PM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
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The biggest thing you can do to help your guitar in transit is to pack the peg head firmly with padding (I use logo t-shirts that never fit me as case candy for the buyer). When the peg head end of the case has to be reefed down to latch, you have immobilized it and reduces the chance of whiplash neck breakage considerably.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoffeeFan View Post
You pay for a box and packaging materials.
My experience was different. $66 for self-packed based on weight and dimensions versus $124 for store packed, all in - box, packing materials, and labor. I'd say you got a great deal with only an $18 premium.
  #49  
Old 10-24-2019, 09:13 PM
chippygreen chippygreen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JERZEY View Post
Firstly if you read the packing rules you will find that almost nobody follows the packing rules. When I see how these guitars get shipped around It makes me LOL. I have yet to see a single one packed correctly and per the shippers rules.

In my experience UPS will send out an inspector. He will take some pictures and record the claim. If you broke any of the rules they will deny your claim unless you shipped it on a high volume commercial account.

In the future if you want to ship something valuable the rules are:

-NEVER EVER USE UPS
-Use Fedex and double insure the value.
-Actually read and follow the shipping rules.

Nobody uses UPS to ship important stuff commercially that should tell you everything you want to know. Businesses almost always use Fedex when it counts.
Fedex denied a claim to a seller who shipped a Martin to me. They dropped it and cracked the lower bout. Neither Fedex or UPS insurance is worth anything. They are not insurance companies, and single shipment insurance is impossible to claim because you've only paid a few bucks for it and have no customer history or prospective business.

Always use a specialty insurer, like Heritage. They cover your guitars against theft or damage, including guitars shipped or sold by you. Because they collect premiums from a large pool, and they want to keep you (and your friends) as a customer, claims payment is easier. I'm with Jayne on this one.
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  #50  
Old 10-25-2019, 04:42 AM
eshrager eshrager is offline
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Did the OP actually buy insurance or did they just increase the 'declared value' of the shipment?

These are two very different things. Freight companies have limits as to what they will pay in the event they are liable for loss due to damage, theft, fire, etc.

This can vary from company to company but is usually around $100 or a set amount per pound. What many people view as purchasing insurance is in actuality just increasing this limit. You need to prove that the shipping company is liable for any loss in order to collect any money. And then there is the matter of determining what the actual dollar value of the loss is which is covered by the terms and conditions of the freight documents that you sign.

In short, insurance covers you for an agreed to value under specific conditions and circumstances. For musical instruments, one of the specialty agencies such as Heritage will discuss with you in detail what conditions are covered, under what circumstances and how value is to be determined. The premium you pay is based on this information. These are key items and need to be clarified upfront. Some people have their instruments covered with a rider under their homeowners policy. Be very careful about how value is determined and confirm in writing that in event of a loss, your claim will be calculated in the way you expect.

At one point, UPS did offer actual insurance on shipments thru a self-owned insurance subsidiary. Again, this was a very,very different thing than just increasing the declared value on a shipment.
  #51  
Old 10-25-2019, 08:44 AM
Vancebo Vancebo is offline
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I am not really stressing about it. $2700 is a lot to me. I am not made of money but it’s not causing the family to have to eat beans and rice.

I got to finally talk to Ted at LA Guitar Sales. He was informative and positive. He believes that it will be resolved easily. They need to investigate because of all of the false claims reported by scammers. UPS are not experts on guitars or much of anything else. They have to figure out the issue in this case. He thinks this should be a cut and dry case.

Ted says now that he didn’t see any visible flaws in the guitar on his quick inspection. That’s good news if I end up with it. He just can’t make claims that he knows definitively the condition of the guitar.

I may be asked to provide current value of the instrument in its condition from a third party source. Well, he will be the third party source if I need him to be and he figures the value to be around $500 to him. (No, if they deny my claim, I am not selling it to anyone here for $500.) 😁 They can call it a total loss or pay out the difference.

I did discover that the added amount was not insurance but added value cost like was mentioned by one of the responses earlier. That was a bummer.

Lastly, I just happen to be meeting with my insurance adjuster today when they assess water damage in my house. I will have a couple of questions regarding my expensive instruments.
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  #52  
Old 10-25-2019, 09:04 AM
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DenverSteve DenverSteve is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnf91 View Post
The UPS Store is actually not part of UPS. Having them pack it doesn't guarantee a thing.....
Misconception by many. UPS owns the "The UPS Store" and franchises the individual stores. Just like McDonalds. They own the brand and license the stores to operate as UPS Stores. They purchased the shipping franchise Mail Boxes Etc. and rebranded (renamed) them. So, they do own the company and the name and license the stores to operate for them. They are ultimately responsible.
  #53  
Old 10-25-2019, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickstep192 View Post
It seems to me that if UPS declares the packaging inadequate, It becomes a thing between UPS and LA Guitars since LA Guitars provided the packaging.....
Not at all. LA Guitar Sales didn't ship the package. The OP did. This is between the OP and UPS - no one else.
  #54  
Old 10-25-2019, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MChild62 View Post
Uhm...pics to share?

Asking for a friend.
No, sorry. That was well over a decade ago.
  #55  
Old 10-25-2019, 09:27 AM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vancebo View Post
I am not made of money but it’s not causing the family to have to eat beans and rice.
You could do worse. Apologies for the US measurements.

GREAT BEANS

1 lb. beans. Pinto, black, peruano.
2 baseball-size brown onions, large dice (approx 1/2" X 1/2")
10 cloves garlic, coarsely chopped.
1 Tb. salt. Start with 2 teaspoons.
Ground black pepper.
10 bay leaves.
A gallon of water.
Oil.

Start the water boiling in a separate pot.
Start some oil heating in the bottom of a large, heavy dutch oven or the like.
Rinse the beans in a colander and pick out whatever's in there that isn't beans.
When the oil's hot, throw in the onions and garlic. Stir.
Crank in some black pepper. Don't skimp.
Keep stirring until it looks and feels like apple pie filling. This will take quite a while.
Throw in the beans and carefully add enough boiling water to immerse the whole business.
Add the bay leaves and 2 tsp. of the salt.
Bring the heat down to the lowest that will still maintain a gentle boil, adding water when it needs it. Leave uncovered or not entirely covered.
A couple hours in, taste the liquid (not a bean) to see if you need more salt.

Depending on which kind of beans you use and how old they were when you bought them, figure on at least 4-5 hours. Black beans can take 10.

This is also a split pea soup recipe, but with more water (duh), and no bay leaves.

And although the title is just "Great Beans," they also happen to be great vegan beans. But that's only a selling point with certain people.
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  #56  
Old 10-25-2019, 09:41 AM
Arthur Slowhand Arthur Slowhand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vancebo View Post
I did discover that the added amount was not insurance but added value cost like was mentioned by one of the responses earlier. That was a bummer.
Wow... that might have been a costly oversight. I hope the misinterpretation doesn't cost you, but sadly, I expect UPS will hold you to the contract - and to be honest, why wouldn't they?
  #57  
Old 10-25-2019, 09:41 AM
seannx seannx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverSteve View Post
Misconception by many. UPS owns the "The UPS Store" and franchises the individual stores. Just like McDonalds. They own the brand and license the stores to operate as UPS Stores. They purchased the shipping franchise Mail Boxes Etc. and rebranded (renamed) them. So, they do own the company and the name and license the stores to operate for them. They are ultimately responsible.
UPS has a Pack and Ship Guarantee program that franchise stores can pay extra to participate in, and offer customers a somewhat more reliable insurance option. If the UPS store packs the item, then it’s responsible for loss or damage.

After a couple of bad experiences shipping larger and more expensive items through USPS and UPS that we had packed (always well and more than sufficient), we opted to pay extra for the Pack and Ship service. It’s saved us time and trouble so far.

Here’s more info about the UPS pack and Ship Guarantee Program. You need to make sure that your local UPS Store is a member.

https://www.theupsstore.com/about/pack-ship-guarantee
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  #58  
Old 10-25-2019, 09:50 AM
kiva238 kiva238 is offline
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Just as an aside.

This is why in the situation of valuable guitars, I try to change out the original wood cases with Calton, Hoffee, Hiscox, SKB iseries, etc.

The new plywood cases may look nice and be OEM, but they don't protect nearly as well as good aftermarket case like those I mentioned.

In the case of this $2700 guitar (and had I kept it), I would have put it in $300 Hiscox and not worried about much short of a tank rolling over it.

I currently have a lovely OM-28 Authentic posted for sale in a nice Calton case. I've had more than a couple of folks ask where the original Martin case is. I laugh and tell them that this $4k plus guitar is now being sold and shipped in the protection of a Calton!
  #59  
Old 10-25-2019, 10:17 AM
GangstaPat GangstaPat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
You could do worse. Apologies for the US measurements.

GREAT BEANS

1 lb. beans. Pinto, black, peruano.
2 baseball-size brown onions, large dice (approx 1/2" X 1/2")
10 cloves garlic, coarsely chopped.
1 Tb. salt. Start with 2 teaspoons.
Ground black pepper.
10 bay leaves.
A gallon of water.
Oil.

Start the water boiling in a separate pot.
Start some oil heating in the bottom of a large, heavy dutch oven or the like.
Rinse the beans in a colander and pick out whatever's in there that isn't beans.
When the oil's hot, throw in the onions and garlic. Stir.
Crank in some black pepper. Don't skimp.
Keep stirring until it looks and feels like apple pie filling. This will take quite a while.
Throw in the beans and carefully add enough boiling water to immerse the whole business.
Add the bay leaves and 2 tsp. of the salt.
Bring the heat down to the lowest that will still maintain a gentle boil, adding water when it needs it. Leave uncovered or not entirely covered.
A couple hours in, taste the liquid (not a bean) to see if you need more salt.

Depending on which kind of beans you use and how old they were when you bought them, figure on at least 4-5 hours. Black beans can take 10.

This is also a split pea soup recipe, but with more water (duh), and no bay leaves.

And although the title is just "Great Beans," they also happen to be great vegan beans. But that's only a selling point with certain people.
Thanks my Dude, I am so using this recipe. And thanks for the advice on the aftermarket cases. I think I will replace the OEM cases on all of my expensive guitars with Hiscox or Caulton. Is Humicase any good? I hope this issue with UPS is resolved quickly and fairly. At this point I don't trust FredEx or UPS with valuable items and I do use Heritage on all of my instruments. Worth every single penny and then some.
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  #60  
Old 10-25-2019, 10:29 AM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
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Calton cases are wonderful, essentially bombproof, and heavy. And they are rather pricey starting around $1K.

Hiscox are great cases and are about $300 for the Pro II version, or ~$600 for the heavier Artist version intended for touring pro's. I currently have two Hiscox cases that came with guitars, and if those guitars ever sold I would keep the cases myself and get something else for the sale.
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