Sheeran by Lowden - Coming soon??!!

[Brent Hahn]

I think part of the reason guys resent Sheeran is because he makes it all look so easy. Money for nothin' and your chicks for free. For starters, get yourself a looper pedal and see if your time is good enough to do even rudimentary loop work.

[sakar12]

As a Lowden owner I have worried about Sheeran by Lowden watering down the brand, but I love my F35 so much I joke that when I die I want my cremated ashes buried in it, so I'll obviously never sell it.

In all seriousness, no one should care how well Ed plays; we should just be happy he's promoting the joy of guitars in an era of computer music.

[Dr Tone Control]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

I'd say yes/yes/no.

I played the Sheerans at winter NAMM, and I found nothing about them that would suggest they'd be a "gateway" to a Lowden.

were they hand-made prototypes?

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by Dr Tone Control

were they hand-made prototypes?

Didn't occur to me to wonder or ask.

[Malcolm Kindnes]

Originally Posted by parlorpower82

Just watering down the Lowden name in my opinion.

I agree with this.

[Malcolm Kindnes]

I hope it will all be a great success, but as I have said before I just don't see how it can be done, time will tell.

[lowrider]

Originally Posted by Dr Tone Control

were they hand-made prototypes?

They had to be. At the time, they were still talking about how they would be setting up an automated assembly line.

[gr81dorn]

Originally Posted by lowrider

They had to be. At the time, they were still talking about how they would be setting up an automated assembly line.

I'm dying to know how this could/would work? I don't see how you can automate the assembly of an acoustic guitar.

At NAMM they were actually selling the opposite idea - "these would be made at the same place by the same folks"...

I'd love to hear more about this "automated assembly line" you've heard about.

[Dr Tone Control]

Originally Posted by lowrider

They had to be. At the time, they were still talking about how they would be setting up an automated assembly line.

In that case, has anyone played a production-line one yet?
What are they like?

Surely they can't be as good as hand-made prototypes?
(unless the widely-accepted ideas about production line vs hand-made are wrong)

[lowrider]

Originally Posted by gr81dorn

I'm dying to know how this could/would work? I don't see how you can automate the assembly of an acoustic guitar.

At NAMM they were actually selling the opposite idea - "these would be made at the same place by the same folks"...

I'd love to hear more about this "automated assembly line" you've heard about.

Excuse me, that was the wrong term. If you watch the videos, you see George speaking about engineers designing a highly automated plant to build these new guitars.

I only had the videos to go by. Were you at namm? Did someone from Lowden tell you "these would be made at the same place by the same folks"?

If so, I guess you're right, but it appears that they are doing it the way I heard it.

[Dr Tone Control]

Originally Posted by lowrider

Excuse me, that was the wrong term. If you watch the videos, you see George speaking about engineers designing a highly automated plant to build these new guitars.

I only had the videos to go by. Were you at namm? Did someone from Lowden tell you "these would be made at the same place by the same folks"?

If so, I guess you're right, but it appears that they are doing it the way I heard it.

I'm wondering why, if in a high-income country with a minimum wage of $10 an hour, it's possible to automate production of acoustic guitars down to South-east Asia prices, then why hasn't anyone done this before?

[wattsy]

Originally Posted by Dr Tone Control

I'm wondering why, if in a high-income country with a minimum wage of $10 an hour, it's possible to automate production of acoustic guitars down to South-east Asia prices, then why hasn't anyone done this before?

I don't think these guitars are being sold at South-east Asian prices. As far as I know they will retail for around £700. The equivalent no-frills style guitar would be something like £200 if made in China and £450 if made in Mexico (like the small laminate Martin and Taylor guitars). With a high degree of automated production, most of the unit cost will be in materials, distribution, dealer margin and tax. The higher Irish wages and other costs compared with China and Mexico will be absorbed in the higher retail price.

[lowrider]

Yes, Martin and Taylor and others are already automated. It's not like we're talking about a conveyor belt going along with robots doing the work.

It was said here recently that when you take the Martin tour, you hear machinery everywhere and the shop is nice and clean where 30 years ago it was quiet with people using hand tools. Perhaps Lowden is taking it another step forward.

This is one way they get more consistency, but people want to think that their new guitar was made by one guy working away at it, so it will be a while before the robots completely take over.

[gr81dorn]

Originally Posted by lowrider

Yes, Martin and Taylor and others are already automated. It's not like we're talking about a conveyor belt going along with robots doing the work.

It was said here recently that when you take the Martin tour, you hear machinery everywhere and the shop is nice and clean where 30 years ago it was quiet with people using hand tools. Perhaps Lowden is taking it another step forward.

This is one way they get more consistency, but people want to think that their new guitar was made by one guy working away at it, so it will be a while before the robots completely take over.

The only real difference between right now and 50 years ago is most of these comapnies have CNC machines making the components/parts that used to be carved/cut/made by power tools and before that hand tools. I suppose one could argue that a power drill is a form of automation, but the making of a guitar is nowhere near automation in the sense that the machines are making the guitars - not even close. I've been to many guitar factories (and get access to see stuff the rest of you wouldn't even care to see) - literally none have automation as I would call it. They almost all have more CNCs than ever, but you still need lots of people and manual labor to make a guitar.

Lowden's most likely move (and delay) was to create all the jigs, tooling and workstations to pump these guitars out quicker. They've already designed them to be much cheaper to build because they have virtually no embellishments, have much simpler materials/production techniques and the actual assembly methods are far less labor-intensive. The woods are cheaper, but the materials represent little of the cost of a guitar (unless you're working with "the tree" etc). To make them cheaper, you simply have to be able to make a whole lot more of them in a whole lot less time. That's more an exercise in Lean Manufacturing than anything.

When I played a Sheeran this winter, I was blown away with how good it was built, despite the obvious corners cut compared to Lowdens. It wasn't a Lowden, but it was still sorta a Lowden and on par with lots of the really high quality instruments it will inevitably compete against in the price point.

I believe making them in the same factory by the same people is purely marketing and maybe even a nod to the low output they knew they'd be able to have. They could make them cheaper, faster, as good or better and in exponentially higher volume if they made them in asia or mexico. They could probably still command as much or more for them simply by virtue of their relationship to both George and Ed. I actually wonder if they'll eventually do that because the demand could be high and they could hurt themselves a lot by long waits or quality issues from hurrying to get a bunch out.

[Dr Tone Control]

Originally Posted by wattsy

I don't think these guitars are being sold at South-east Asian prices. As far as I know they will retail for around £700. The equivalent no-frills style guitar would be something like £200 if made in China and £450 if made in Mexico (like the small laminate Martin and Taylor guitars). With a high degree of automated production, most of the unit cost will be in materials, distribution, dealer margin and tax. The higher Irish wages and other costs compared with China and Mexico will be absorbed in the higher retail price.

I'm not sure you are responding to the point I am trying to make.
Yes, Thomann sell £200 Chinese acoustics.
However, the cheapest mid brand solid wood acoustics start at £500-£600
(Takamine, Gretsch, Cort, Yamaha)

I'm asking why I haven't seen this done before: building guitars which I assume must retain a significant part of the Lowden DNA and sound, but in the UK for that price