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Old 06-25-2018, 12:29 AM
Brucebubs Brucebubs is offline
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Default The Case Of The Disappearing Rosette

Many people disliked the rosette on the Martin JDP II went it was released.



That's OK with me, I get it.
Diane Ponzio was inspired by the rosette on the Martin Ian Anderson signature guitar.



However, I just happen to own build #71 of 71 - the last one made and the rosette now looks quite different to that original one!



Rather a dramatic change don't you think?
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Last edited by Brucebubs; 06-25-2018 at 01:34 AM.
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Old 06-25-2018, 04:49 AM
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BrunoBlack BrunoBlack is offline
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That’s a good example of how long term exposure to UV light can make dark wood lighter and light wood darker. FWIW, I think the original is a nice touch.
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Old 06-25-2018, 03:48 PM
Shuksan Shuksan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haasome View Post
That’s a good example of how long term exposure to UV light can make dark wood lighter and light wood darker. FWIW, I think the original is a nice touch.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Brucebubs was suggesting that the difference in appearance between the rosettes in the two photos is due to changes in color over time in the rosette on his guitar. Those are two different rosettes on two different guitars. I think what he was getting at is that Martin toned down the contrast between the two colors of the rosette tiles a lot over the production run of 71 guitars.

What is an example of a dark wood like the dark wood in the first rosette that would get a lot lighter with exposure to light?
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Old 06-25-2018, 04:03 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuksan View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Brucebubs was suggesting that the difference in appearance between the rosettes in the two photos is due to changes in color over time in the rosette on his guitar. Those are two different rosettes on two different guitars. I think what he was getting at is that Martin toned down the contrast between the two colors of the rosette tiles a lot over the production run of 71 guitars.
I think you're correct.

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Originally Posted by Shuksan View Post
What is an example of a dark wood like the dark wood in the first rosette that would get a lot lighter with exposure to light?
Well, most dark woods get lighter with exposure to UV rays. So I don't know for certain whether it's a different wood species in the second rosette, but it appears to be. In the first one the rays appear to be made of rosewood, and in the second they look more like walnut.


whm
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Old 06-25-2018, 04:17 PM
Brucebubs Brucebubs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuksan View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Brucebubs was suggesting that the difference in appearance between the rosettes in the two photos is due to changes in color over time in the rosette on his guitar. Those are two different rosettes on two different guitars. I think what he was getting at is that Martin toned down the contrast between the two colors of the rosette tiles a lot over the production run of 71 guitars.

What is an example of a dark wood like the dark wood in the first rosette that would get a lot lighter with exposure to light?
I think you're right Shuksan - even in my earliest pictures of my guitar - when it was newest - the rosette was never like the early JDP's.



A good example of a dark wood that gets lighter when exposed to light is in this picture of a tuner swap from screw-in bushings to smaller push fit bushings - you can see the darker wood that was lying under the big flat washers used with screw-in bushings.
I've seen this effect referred to as 'raccoon-eyes'.

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Old 06-25-2018, 04:22 PM
Shuksan Shuksan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wade Hampton View Post
Well, most dark woods get lighter with exposure to UV rays. So I don't know for certain whether it's a different wood species in the second rosette, but it appears to be. In the first one the rays appear to be made of rosewood, and in the second they look more like walnut.
whm
I agree that some dark woods can lighten a bit if left exposed to UV for an extended time, but Haasome suggested that the dark triangles in the left rosette were lightened into the light triangles in the rosette on the right by exposure to UV light. I agree that the dark triangles look like rosewood. I can't believe that rosewood would lighten that much under anything like normal circumstances.

Brucebubs - Thanks for posting the photo of the "raccoon eyes". Do you know by any chance how old that guitar was when the photo was taken?

Last edited by Shuksan; 06-25-2018 at 05:45 PM.
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Old 06-25-2018, 04:49 PM
Brucebubs Brucebubs is offline
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Originally Posted by Shuksan View Post

Brucebubs - Thanks for posting the photo of the "raccoon eyes". Do you know by any chance how old that guitar was when the photo was taken?
No idea - it's a picture I just found on the interweb one day and copied it as a great example of 'raccoon-eyes' on tuner swaps.
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Old 06-25-2018, 04:59 PM
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BrunoBlack BrunoBlack is offline
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My mistake. I thought it was the same guitar and Bruce was showing us how it had changed over time. I noticed the bridgepins were different, but thought the owner was the same.
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Old 06-25-2018, 05:08 PM
Brucebubs Brucebubs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haasome View Post
My mistake. I thought it was the same guitar and Bruce was showing us how it had changed over time. I noticed the bridgepins were different, but thought the owner was the same.
Sorry if I didn't make that clear Paul.
The 1st picture may well be the very 1st guitar made ( Diane Ponzio owns it herself ) - it doesn't have a build # number on the inside label whereas mine has #71 under her signature.
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1972 - Takamine D-70
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2021 - Epiphone 'IBG' Hummingbird
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Old 06-25-2018, 05:12 PM
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BrunoBlack BrunoBlack is offline
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However, if I’m looking at this correctly. Here are 2 pictures of your same guitar taken at different times — right?



Notice how the triangles surrounding the sound hole have changed shade over time. Triangle close to hole are lighter in left photo and triangles away from the hole appear darker.
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Old 06-25-2018, 05:18 PM
Brucebubs Brucebubs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haasome View Post
Hiwever, if I’m looking at this correctly. Here are 2 pictures of your guitar taken at different times — right?
Correct.
Picture on the left with the ebony pins was taken late last year after I treated the fret board and bridge with F-One conditioner.

Picture on right - guitar standing up, original white pins, was taken very early 2012. The Italian Alpine Spruce top was very pale when new.

At one point in time - probably around 2016 (see picture) - the rosette was a mess, it looked like 2 different types of chocolate had melted together but I rather like it now as it has continued to change.

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1972 - Takamine D-70
2014 - Alvarez ABT60 Baritone
2015 - Kittis RBJ-195 Jumbo
2012 - Dan Dubowski#61
2018 - Rickenbacker 4003 Fireglo
2020 - Gibson Custom Shop Historic 1957 SJ-200
2021 - Epiphone 'IBG' Hummingbird

Last edited by Brucebubs; 06-25-2018 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 06-25-2018, 07:09 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Bruce in a Land Down Under, where women swoon and men chunder, wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucebubs View Post
A good example of a dark wood that gets lighter when exposed to light is in this picture of a tuner swap from screw-in bushings to smaller push fit bushings - you can see the darker wood that was lying under the big flat washers used with screw-in bushings.
I've seen this effect referred to as 'raccoon-eyes'.

You know, Bruce, "Raccoon eyes" would be a really good look for you, too! Get some dark brown eye makeup and just start putting large ovals of it around your eyes every day when you get up in the morning.

It's a subtle look, naturally, and not everyone will realize that you've enhanced your natural good looks:

"You know, I can't put my finger on exactly what it is, but there's something about Bruce these days that's especially dashing and manly!"

"I agree: he somehow radiates this intangible air of quiet elegance and competence!"

Just a thought....


Wade Hampton "Who WAS That Masked Man?" Miller
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Old 06-25-2018, 07:20 PM
printer2 printer2 is offline
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I left mine out in the sun too long and it faded away.






Kidding.
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