Trade gone bad.....ideas? - Page 5

jojobean39 · #61 06-23-2018, 07:41 PM

I’ve watched enough Law and Order episodes to know that someone is ending up crying in the bushes over a broken guitar in Central Park. And then some detective is gonna say, “Boy, this must’ve been A-MAJOR crime.”

DUN DUN <——Law and Order gavel sound

(Get it? A-Major?)

This situation really sucks. And I realize they’re dealing with some awful stuff. But it sounds like the OP has been really reasonable. Best of luck. Please do let us know how this shapes out.

Don Lampson · #62 06-23-2018, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by okeem22

Thank you everone. Overwhelming response and certainly cant even think of responding to them all.

Yes I am in a jam.....theres always a first perhaps. I hear of deals gone bad, just with two vs. three parties. Still doable in my book, just didnt happen that way.

Not feeling desperate by any means. Money not involved, and didnt feel "stuck" with a near mint Sexauer FT-14 that I had gotten a nice deal on.

Not up to me to divulge the other person, he has a life and probably isnt even aware of this thread, though I did email him of my post as he has wanted updates on what has happened and was due for one. I can say he wanted my guitar and got it, and as soon as possible sent his guitar to Bob who got it. That is it. Did his part 100%. Can also say concensus likely would be that he is one of the more respected members of our fine group. Not a stranger to any regular on here.

This is becoming more confusing? Did you send your guitar to "Bob", or the "respected forum member"? Wherever, or whomever, you sent the guitar to is your problem is. Did you send your guitar to "RFM", or "Bob", assuming there would be another guitar sent to you from "RFM"? If it was "Bob" the "RFM" isn't in this trade that I can see? How was this deal supposed to work exactly, anyway?

You sound sort of like the protagonist in the song, "Long Black Veil", who "spoke not a word"? Why hasn't he came to your defense with an alibi for either you - Or "Bob"?

Don

Braindead · #63 06-24-2018, 06:23 AM

I made my living for many years as a licensed private investigator. You need a reputable LPI in the area where your guitar is supposed to be. He/she could visit the address you have and simply state that he has been sent there to discuss the issue. If they do not wish to turn over the guitar, you have options.
With proper documentation, the LPI can get a seizure warrant and visit the residence with a deputy. Also, once verified that the residents have the guitar, you can advise them that you will lodge a complaint with the Ethics Board of the FL State Bar if your guitar is not turned over immediately to you LPI. Should they choose to be reluctant, lodge the complaint.

You are not dealing with ethical people and you should not play nice. If you wish you can send me all the info you have on the shylocks and I can run a background check. Since 9/11, background checks are sketchy at best but maybe something will show up.

P.S. Best to avoid using lawyers....trust me on this!

RP · #64 06-24-2018, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Braindead

I made my living for many years as a licensed private investigator. You need a reputable LPI in the area where your guitar is supposed to be. He/she could visit the address you have and simply state that he has been sent there to discuss the issue. If they do not wish to turn over the guitar, you have options.
With proper documentation, the LPI can get a seizure warrant and visit the residence with a deputy. Also, once verified that the residents have the guitar, you can advise them that you will lodge a complaint with the Ethics Board of the FL State Bar if your guitar is not turned over immediately to you LPI. Should they choose to be reluctant, lodge the complaint.

You are not dealing with ethical people and you should not play nice. If you wish you can send me all the info you have on the shylocks and I can run a background check. Since 9/11, background checks are sketchy at best but maybe something will show up.

P.S. Best to avoid using lawyers....trust me on this!

I agree and suggested the same in post #19...

Gjimmy · #65 06-24-2018, 06:42 AM

Hate to say it but “Bob” sounds like a Nigerian Prince.

How did you find “Bob”? Was he also a respected forum member?

This doesn’t sound good.

devellis · #66 06-24-2018, 07:50 AM

Honestly, folks, I just think all this talk of PIs and lawyers is premature. there's a guy who might be on his death bed. Is it any wonder that the family is more concerned about his survival than about shipping a guitar? Make it as painless as possible for them to get the guitar to you. If that fails, then there's plenty of time for a more aggressive intervention. If you had just had a stroke, how would you feel about somebody bugging your wife about a guitar when she was distraught about your recovery or survival? How would you feel about having to deal with lawyers or PIs in addition to your concerns about a loved one? She's an officer of the court. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that she's some kind of crook (although the two are not necessarily incompatible). It's certainly far more likely that she's beside herself with concern about her family. Just arrange to go there and get the guitar.

There's a time for compassion and a time for aggressive action. I don't think this situation has transitioned form the former to the latter just yet.

RP · #67 06-24-2018, 07:55 AM

This thread has reminded me why I’ve refrained from ever trading guitars despite several dozen sales and purchases through AGF.....

okeem22 · #68 06-24-2018, 08:05 AM

Thanks devellis. This has been a really long drawn out process. Nearly a couple months before Bobs health issues and had been growing restless waiting at that point. I did indeed back off and had compassion after the issues came up.
Now it has been 1 1/2 months, horrible communication, told more than once it was to be shipped, and most recently that it had shipped. So my patience and compassion are waning. Now I am most concerned as the last communication was that it had shipped. That was 2 weeks ago. No info, tracking, package not delivered and NO communication despite numerous attempts on my end.
I think I have been more than reasonable in this transaction. Dropping off a guitar to ship is not time consuming or rocket science. After over 3 months I am no longer feeling like being Mr. Niceguy or " Give them a break". Done that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by devellis

Honestly, folks, I just think all this talk of PIs and lawyers is premature. there's a guy who might be on his death bed. Is it any wonder that the family is more concerned about his survival than about shipping a guitar? Make it as painless as possible for them to get the guitar to you. If that fails, then there's plenty of time for a more aggressive intervention. If you had just had a stroke, how would you feel about somebody bugging your wife about a guitar when she was distraught about your recovery or survival? How would you feel about having to deal with lawyers or PIs in addition to your concerns about a loved one? She's an officer of the court. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that she's some kind of crook (although the two are not necessarily incompatible). It's certainly far more likely that she's beside herself with concern about her family. Just arrange to go there and get the guitar.

There's a time for compassion and a time for aggressive action. I don't think this situation has transitioned form the former to the latter just yet.

jomaynor · #69 06-24-2018, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by okeem22

Thanks devellis. This has been a really long drawn out process. Nearly a couple months before Bobs health issues and had been growing restless waiting at that point. I did indeed back off and had compassion after the issues came up.
Now it has been 1 1/2 months, horrible communication, told more than once it was to be shipped, and most recently that it had shipped. So my patience and compassion are waning. Now I am most concerned as the last communication was that it had shipped. That was 2 weeks ago. No info, tracking, package not delivered and NO communication despite numerous attempts on my end.
I think I have been more than reasonable in this transaction. Dropping off a guitar to ship is not time consuming or rocket science. After over 3 months I am no longer feeling like being Mr. Niceguy or " Give them a break". Done that.

I feel your pain, okeem. This has gone on too long - it's not like the 3rd party's stroke occurred in the past several days.

I agree with you that it is time for more aggressive action, especially since it seems that you have now been lied to, regarding the guitar having been shipped. I wish you well.

Dondoh · #70 06-24-2018, 10:11 AM

Deepest sympathies Okeem.

One small point.

I'm not a lawyer, nor have I slept in a Holiday Inn lately, but I have been the executor on a few estates.

You might consider the possibility that Bob has died. It would explain the lack of recent communication. Or he may be close. If so, the family must post a search for creditors in a local newspaper. Most folks post it in the smallest town press they legally can (it costs less to post a legal notice in the Podunk Chronicle than the NY Times).

If you can find a way to keep an eye out for these notices it might help. Also look for death notices in whatever local areas you know he frequents. If he dies and the estate resolves (usually a year?) you might find yourself out of luck.

PiousDevil · #71 06-24-2018, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devellis

Honestly, folks, I just think all this talk of PIs and lawyers is premature. there's a guy who might be on his death bed. Is it any wonder that the family is more concerned about his survival than about shipping a guitar? Make it as painless as possible for them to get the guitar to you. If that fails, then there's plenty of time for a more aggressive intervention. If you had just had a stroke, how would you feel about somebody bugging your wife about a guitar when she was distraught about your recovery or survival? How would you feel about having to deal with lawyers or PIs in addition to your concerns about a loved one? She's an officer of the court. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that she's some kind of crook (although the two are not necessarily incompatible). It's certainly far more likely that she's beside herself with concern about her family. Just arrange to go there and get the guitar.

There's a time for compassion and a time for aggressive action. I don't think this situation has transitioned form the former to the latter just yet.

The time for compassion is far past. In all likelihood OP has been conned, and the longer he waits for reasons of compassion, the lower the already slim chances of him recovering his losses.

wdean · #72 06-24-2018, 10:39 AM

Very tough spot to be in for sure.

My gut feel from what you have said is I don't really think the wife/son is trying to screw you out of a guitar. Like a few others have said I think it is more likely getting your guitar to you is way, way down on their list of priorities at the moment. I think they could be even angry at you for "harassing" them about a silly guitar. The wife/son may not even know how expensive the guitar...so maybe that is why they said 'the guitar has shipped"? Just like "the checks in the mail"? They want you off their backs for now?

I agree with you that you should be concerned and what they did is justified or right, I am just trying think of why they might be doing or not doing?

This doesn't help you but I guess if you want to force the issue like others have said you can try to talking to them directly, going to pick up yourself (making it easy for them) or going the legal route. Personally, I wouldn't go the legal route at this point knowing their personal situation. If the wife is a lawyer I don't think threatening legal action at this point would cause her to move any quicker?

Hope this has a happy ending!

PiousDevil · #73 06-24-2018, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gjimmy

Hate to say it but “Bob” sounds like a Nigerian Prince.

How did you find “Bob”? Was he also a respected forum member?

This doesn’t sound good.

This.

Who is Bob? What do you know ab out him or the other third party that gives you the impression they are on the up and up. Not "what have they told you," but "what do you know."?

Nochops · #74 06-24-2018, 10:56 AM

PM sent with a suggestion

jojobean39 · #75 06-24-2018, 01:52 PM

The couple are lawyers. They know what is going on. They’re not daft people. It is likely a really terrible time. But that doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t settle their payments. I bet they’re still paying their mortgage and electric bill.

The OP sounds more than reasonable, if we take what he said as an accurate depiction. He seems reasonable, so I have no reason to believe this isn’t really close to the real story.

They’re not unaware of it at this juncture. They know what’s up. They’ve chosen to ignore him. They’ve chosen to not return calls. They’ve chosen not to ship. They continue to lie to him. Whether they’re going through an awful time or not... those are not acceptable behaviors.