Putting the thud in the alternating bass

[Fuzzy125]

Been learning from Stefan Grossman's videos. They're very detailed, split screen and all. But for the life of me, I just can't figure out how he makes the low E go "BAM" or "THUD" sometimes when he's accenting certain beats. He's clearly not using a thumb pick, and from the motion of his thumb, it looks as if the low E is pressed down the same way for accent as for any other beat. Truly mystifying.

I tried using the edge of my thumb nail, because that's the only thing I can think of and the camera doesn't show that. But the sound isn't quite right.

The best way I can describe the accent is: it's as if he's pulling the low E away from the guitar body and letting it snap back. BUT that's not what the video shows. The video just shows him maybe pressing down a little harder on the low E. But that can't be it.

[HHP]

Have you tried pushing the low E in while making the thumb stroke? Kind of a dual action in and down.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy125

…Truly mystifying.

hi Fuzzy…

I'm an all-flesh player and though I can hook a bass string while palm muting that string, and get a thunk, I'll actually don a cut down, fairly thick, thumb pick to get a better thunk on Travis style pieces which beg for more thunk.

I used thumb picks for a couple decades, then when I began buying more responsive guitars, I abandoned them. However, I have a container full in the back room, and I always have one in the case.

I ground them down on my bench grinder, and fine-tuned them with a metal nail file. They look like this (before and after is pretty easily discernible).



It's just something to consider.

I dislike the Fred Kelly versions because the thumb extension is tiny and flimsy and goes thrip-thrip instead of thunk-thunk.

[rick-slo]

If you mean like in the video below, he is palm muting the bass strings with the thumb side of the palm. If you wish you can also now and then pick the bass string loud enough to buzz on the frets.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwUEHBmrWkc

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy125

Been learning from Stefan Grossman's videos. They're very detailed, split screen and all. But for the life of me, I just can't figure out how he makes the low E go "BAM" or "THUD" sometimes when he's accenting certain beats. He's clearly not using a thumb pick, and from the motion of his thumb, it looks as if the low E is pressed down the same way for accent as for any other beat. Truly mystifying.

I tried using the edge of my thumb nail, because that's the only thing I can think of and the camera doesn't show that. But the sound isn't quite right.

The best way I can describe the accent is: it's as if he's pulling the low E away from the guitar body and letting it snap back. BUT that's not what the video shows. The video just shows him maybe pressing down a little harder on the low E. But that can't be it.

Referring to the same video above...

Firstly, he's damping the bass string with the side of his hand on the bridge, as rick says.
Secondly, when he wants an accent in the bass, he's picking harder, so that the string slaps back against the frets.
E.g., at 5:05 you see him reach his thumb under the string a little to pull it up and slap it back - he damps harder at that point too; his whole hand angle changes (fingers come up) to give the thumb the right attack.

At 5:15 (and 5:19), there's a slightly different technique, this time because he's playing the E between the beats to lead on to the A bass. He doesn't pick on beat 4 but strums instead, so he can get his thumb into position; you see him press the string down to the frets before picking it. As he releases it, it then slaps back as his thumb moves across to rest on the A string before picking that.

This is all possible with the flesh of the thumb (as he is doing), but you can get a more aggressive sound with a thumbnail, or a thumbpick. Personally I find the bare thumb/nail preferable because of the feel and control, but that's only because I'm not practised enough with a thumbpick!

[rick-slo]

With the music I play I don't often mute the strings with my palm but it is a neat sound. Here is an example of a recording I did a number of years ago where I first damped the treble strings and let the bass notes ring and then damped the bass notes while letting the treble melody notes ring.

http://dcoombsguitar.com/Guitar%20Mu...p/SweetMan.mp3

It's fun to play around with various sounds.

[frankhond]

If you refer to a "pop" as in popping a string on electric bass, there is a specific technique for that which Stefan uses. This comes from country blues players way back. Here's how.

Put the edge of your thumb on the string as if you are going to do a free stroke. Instead, rotate your thumb (your hand needs to rotst a little too) so its edge gets slightly under the string. Then let the thumb rotate back while simultaneously lifting the hand away from the string just a little bit. Despite the long sentence to describe it, it should be very fast, like a flick, and as small as possible. You do not need to "pull" the string or anything forceful like that, it's all technique. Stefans channel on toutube has some black and white videos where this appears all over the place.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by frankhond

Put the edge of your thumb on the string as if you are going to do a free stroke. Instead, rotate your thumb (your hand needs to rotst a little too) so its edge gets slightly under the string. Then let the thumb rotate back while simultaneously lifting the hand away from the string just a little bit. Despite the long sentence to describe it, it should be very fast, like a flick, and as small as possible. You do not need to "pull" the string or anything forceful like that, it's all technique

- which is exactly what you see him doing in that video, as I described.
(But there are two different techniques, depending on whether the note is on the beat or before.)

[Fuzzy125]

Relieved to know you guys know exactly what I'm talking about. I didn't know how to describe the thud/thunk/snap/wham bass sound I hear in these country blues recordings. Because Stefan is quite detailed in his explanation, I thought maybe this "accent," which he never stops to break down, is something that would come with time. But it's been a few years, and my alterating bass remains a monotonous boom-chick, boom-chick, whereas Stefan's is boom-chick, THUNK-chick, boom-chick, etc. There is variety in how his low E sounds. To me, that's what animates a country blues tune, or rather, it's a big piece of the puzzle missing in my playing.

Thanks for the breakdown, guys! I'm gonna get to work on it!

Oh, still can't help wondering why something as vital as this is left unaddressed in these videos lessons, which I have plenty of? What is often stressed is the steadiness of the boom-chick.

[JonPR]

The basic difference between "boom" and "thunk" may be the amount of damping.
In classic "Travis" style, the pitch of the bass notes is important - usually they alternate on different strings.
In what I call the "Broonzy style" (which SG demonstrates), the bass is 4-to-the-bar on that low E - at least when the key is E! - and it might often be more of a thunk, just to drive the groove along. So you'd just lean on the bridge a little more, or move the hand a little more off the bridge on to the string (very subtle distinctions there).

The other element is the percussive slap, which is achieved either by picking up from under the string so it slaps back against the frets (5:05), or (as at 5:15 and 5:19) by pushing it down hard to the fretboard before picking and letting it go, so it comes up and slaps back. The latter has less impact.

But in truth there's a range of attack you can apply with the thumb. (There's also the thumb-slap technique, derived from electric bass, where you don't actually pick the note but bang down on the string so it hits the frets - this is usually on beats 2 or 4, before picking the string on the next beat.)

Broonzy demo-ing his thumb-thunk technique:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm1qtX7Mz5w
Notice he's actually hitting both 6th and 5th strings on the E chord, but damping both hard. On the A he mostly does aim for the A string, but he wouldn't have to. He bangs the A string on the B7 too. None of Stefan's finesse here!

[Fuzzy125]

Thanks for the elaboration, guys. I'm going to work on that "flick." Now I know what to aim for.

[SprintBob]

This is a great thread. I think I'll cut and paste all the advice into a document with the video links.