Sinker Mahogany?

[llew]

Just curious about your thoughts on sinker mahogany Martin dreads? Anybody have one...played one...thoughts? Many thanks!

[Mr. Jelly]

I've never heard anyone say that guitars sound better because they're made of sinker mahogany. That's all I've noticed.

Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly

I've never heard anyone say that guitars sound better because they're made of sinker mahogany. That's all I've noticed.

Check with George Gruhn, Vince Gill, a few Nashville pros, and Martin. They say it does. I was unconvinced at first, but I’m beginning to come around.

[llew]

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

Check with George Gruhn, Vince Gill, a few Nashville pros, and Martin. They say it does. I was unconvinced at first, but I’m beginning to come around.

Yeah...me too Todd?

Originally Posted by llew

Yeah...me too Todd?

Seriously, just come by the house sometime. You can play my D-28GE and my sinker CS-D18-12.

Bought both new. The CS is among the best new Martins I've played. Just a monster guitar, but there are more "special" things about it than just the sinker wood.

Gruhn has quite a lot to say about the mahogany, as does Martin. They say the sinker looks, works, and sounds different than recently harvested mahogany.

[TDavis]

Someone I know calls it “Snake Oil Mahogany”.

But I guess George Gruhn, Vince Gill...and a bunch of Nashville hot shots can’t be wrong...

[jrb715]

I've never played a better dread than a Huss & Dalton sinker mahogany with torrified red spruce top I played a couple of years ago at Artisan in Tennessee. There's also a Huss & Dalton DS now at Artisan with the same wood combination that is exceptional. So, on the basis of the two I've played, I think there just might be something to the claims made for it.

[justonwo]

I’ve heard Floater Mahogany has a lighter tone.

[grandstick]

I played several of the 0000’s that Gruhn had in his shop - they each had a remarkably good tone.

Michael McRae told me that Vince Gill had been in a few days prior to my visit. He had Joe Walsh and Timothy B. Schmidt with him, and they tried out some of those same guitars. He ended up buying 5 of them - one for each member of The Eagles.

As they were walking out the door, Vince leaned his head back into the shop and said to Michael “Job security!”

[SuperB23]

Here's what Martin had to say about this Sinker Mahogany wood they are using.

Why is sinker mahogany so special?
C.F. Martin Co. was fortunate to acquire a very special mahogany discovered in Belize unique in both age and character. What began as a product of British Colonialism and Empire expansion approximately 300 years ago is now seeing the light of day in special instruments crafted by C.F.Martin & Co. British expansion across the globe opened opportunities to obtain the raw materials required to fuel growth in England and elsewhere throughout the empire. Wood - lots of it- is the material that made growth and exploration possible.

English exploration into Central America uncovered a treasure of mahogany perfect for the construction of the ships required to maintain military and economic dominance. Mahogany was also perfect for other architectural or utilitarian purposes. Harvests of old-growth mahogany were floated down streams for processing near the point of export. As the naturally dense mahogany was being floated, the oldest, heaviest, and most dense logs would settle among the bottom of the floating mass. Some would become trapped by obstructions, while other logs would take on enough water to ultimately lose their buoyancy and drop to the bottom of the river. Once trapped underwater - often at great depths - the bark would be worn away allowing the log to become somewhat preserved by a relentless barrage of river silt, algae, and lack of oxygen. As a naturally spongy material, the wood absorbs mineral from the murky environment. This mahogany was approximately 250-300 years old at the time of first harvest.

Fast-forward 300 years. Rivers change course over time creating slow moving bends or ox-bow lakes. Locals know that wood may be found in the still water that’s now accessible, and re-harvesting from these areas is an important part of the economy in these regions. Logs located in these areas are lassoed and winched to the surface. It’s a dangerous and time consuming process just to bring the logs up after being mired underwater for centuries.

Once re-harvested, the call goes out to a small community of exotic wood specialists around the world. Competition for this material is fierce and diverse. The automotive industry, luxury aircraft and yacht companies, specialist furniture manufacturers, and countless producers of high-end consumer goods all struggle to find premium woods for their unique products. An acoustic instrument manufacturer is a small player against these high-volume exotic wood consumers. Martin was fortunate to have acquired this special mahogany facing such competition and considering their relatively small scale in the exotic wood-using world. Their specialists were among the first on the ground to physically inspect the un-processed material in-country. After evaluation, the log was harvested onsite.

Processing this sinker mahogany for a premium Martin acoustic instrument requires more time and effort than other materials. The aging and dramatic mineralization experienced by the wood makes it denser and consequently more destructive to the processing equipment. In fact, freshly processed sinker mahogany acquires a smooth glossy sheen during cutting caused by the dust actually self-sanding the surfaces against the cutting blade. Not only do the blades have to be replaced more often, but the wood must actually be roughed up to improve adhesion for construction.

Harvest and export of this old-growth mahogany in Belize was ceased by the British prior to the arrival of C.F. Martin in New York. It was their assessment that this material pre-dates similar woods that would have been available circa 1833. In combined age, it is believed this sinker mahogany to be some 500-600 years old.

Processed sinker mahogany retains the visual shimmer and flecking created by the mineral absorption and subsequent processing. The grain also exhibits unique variety across the surface primarily due to the significant age of the wood before original harvest. Remember, this material was 300+ years old when it was first harvested.

Sonically, the mineral absorption creates a physically heavier material. All things equal, a denser material has potential to transmit enhanced bass spectrum frequencies- clean, articulate, and low. It’s the best of the character that mahogany is known for. Sound is subjective, and the experiences of two listeners will always differ. Therefore, it’s inaccurate to state that sinker mahogany is more of any single quality over another. Rather, Martin believes it’s the best of the inherent qualities attributed to mahogany throughout its generations of use in acoustic instruments.

Sinker mahogany is among the most unique materials they’ve been able to acquire throughout almost 200 years of continuous manufacturing. Its age and extreme state of preservation make the instruments exclusive among all others. The marriage of sinker mahogany with proven C.F. Martin construction techniques allow the owner to experience a rarity of materials and a purity of sound ... for a lifetime of enjoyment.

[Jeff Mc]

I played one at my local dealer that the vendor rep ordered from the custom shop. They took it out of the shipping carton and handed it to me. I came back a couple of days later and brought my custom shop D-18 to compare. I think the sinker guitar had a sitka top and mine is Adirondack. I actually liked the sinker guitar a tiny bit better but not a couple of thousand bucks worth. I am going to a Martin roadshow thing there tonight, be interesting to see if the Martin person plays it.

[Aaron Smith]

I will speculate that there are four things potentially going on:

- the sinker mahogany has much different properties than newly harvested wood
- old, first growth mahogany is also much different from today's mahogany.
- instruments made with rare/expensive materials usually get more attention in the manufacturing process, yielding better instruments.
- lots of marketing to put the shine on the apple, so to speak.

[ChalkLitIScream]

Originally Posted by SuperB23

Here's what Martin had to say about this Sinker Mahogany wood they are using.

All things equal, a denser material has potential to transmit enhanced bass spectrum frequencies- clean, articulate, and low.

Huh. Id have thought denser materials transmit the higher frequencies easier.
Scalloping braces for more bass (less mass), brass bridge pins (more wieght) giving a trebly sound...

[TJNies]

I had been a fan of rosewood B&S exclusively, until I tried a Custom Shop 0000 with Sinker and VTS Sitka top.

It sounded so much better than any mahogany I'd ever tried. It's difficult for me to describe, but it landed somewhere closer to RW in its complexity.

I took it home, and it may well be my best Martin in the stable right now.

[momando]

My favorite guitar is my H&D Pilgrim with Sinker Mahogany. It is definitely heavier than other similar mahogany guitars and really has a nice full sound. My only complaint is that it seems a bit more sensitive to when strings go dead, but that could also be a side effect of playing it 5x as much as anything else I own.