The Big Recording Rant

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by jim1960

Thank you both for the kind words.

Yes count me in also just a great song, well done ...

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Yes count me in also just a great song, well done ...

Much appreciated!

[BoneDigger]

Great song! I really enjoyed that!

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by BoneDigger

Great song! I really enjoyed that!

Thank you. That was recorded a long time ago and I don't recall any of the gear we used at the time. But for anyone interested in the thought process that went into production, I do remember some of the decisions we made in order to make a sparse arrangement a bit more interesting.

For the first verse, it's just guitar and shaker.

In the second, we brought in another percussive sound. I can't recall if it's a very tamed snare sound or a stick on the rim, but it comes in right after "Oklahoma." It's in this verse that the background vocal first makes an appearance although limited to just a couple of phrases in the 2nd and 4th lines.

The bass doesn't show up until just before the third verse and it does a lead-in walk-up which becomes a recurring theme for the rest of the song. In this verse the role of the background vocals is expanded and she comes in on the last three lines.

At that point, almost all the instrumentation has been introduced and the fourth verse is arranged much the same as the third. So what started out as very sparse, just shaker and guitar, was now a fuller sound, with the bass and background vocals adding some much needed ear candy.

The song obviously doesn't have a chorus. Clocking in at 5:30, it was already a long song and I thought a chorus would have been tedious and been more of an interruption to the story than an enhancement of the song in any way. But the lack of a chorus did leave me with the problem that a nine verse song sung straight through can become monotonous. Something was needed to break the song into sections.

I don't recall all the things we tried to create those breaks (guitar leads, bass leads, etc.), but as soon as I heard that choral pad, there was no reason to look further. To my ears, that pad lifts the song to the next section. There's something angelic/spiritual/ethereal to it despite its brevity and simplicity.

Where to put the breaks was the next decision and I recall that being a tough one to make. At first I just wanted to put a single break in but no matter where I put it, the end result felt off. After a lot of trials and disappointments, it occurred to me that the story really has three parts:

• Eddie's problem
• Eddie's rescue
• Eddie's epiphany

In a perfect world, that would have broken the song up in to equal thirds, and I tried to do it that way but the first break coming between the third and fourth verses felt forced. The first real moment of self-reflection for Eddie comes in the fourth verse and I decided that's what the breaks should represent... Eddie's two moments of clarity. The first comes when he realizes that the used car salesman sold him a pile of junk. The second comes when he is rescued by a young black man who, given the time and the place, Eddie would not held in high regard and viewed as his inferior. The sharecropper's random act of kindness causes Eddie to make a metaphorical u-turn regarding the relationship between race and who is worthy of respect.

It wasn't something I was consciously aware of at the time, but years later it occurred to me that this song was influenced by a book that I've read and re-read many times... Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah by Richard Bach. I see the sharecropper playing the Donald Shimoda role in Eddie's life. By the end of the song, Eddie knows he has things to learn and the sharecropper might be the teacher he needs in his life. So when Eddie's junker dies, it creates the opportunity for Eddie's rebirth of spirit. Eddie is a different person by the end of the song and that's why the choral pad comes in under the verses for the first time.

Anyway... that was the thought process behind the production. I hope some of you found it interesting or perhaps even helpful in some way.

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by jim1960

I don't recall all the things we tried to create those breaks (guitar leads, bass leads, etc.), but as soon as I heard that choral pad, there was no reason to look further. To my ears, that pad lifts the song to the next section. There's something angelic/spiritual/ethereal to it despite its brevity and simplicity.

Eddie is a different person by the end of the song and that's why the comes in under the verses for the first time.

Thank you so much for including your entire thought process. You can have the greatest song..but if it is not executed properly in the studio it will not receive its full potential.

It's the little things that can make a recording. And you did all of the little things so nicely on your tune.

Can you explain to us what Choral Pad means? Does it mean the symphonic overtures you included?

I would love to hear how you got those Symphonic sounds. Programs? This is my next biggest goal..to get a midi and symphonic programs. While I am looking forward to getting just such a system...I am not looking forward to learning how to set it up. I have heard that initiating and setting up the symphonic programs can be a little bit difficult.

I use to do all of my symphony overdubs with a Chamberlain, which was the first Melotron. I have long since sold that unit. Melotrons, Chamberlains, were tape run keyboards. Think of a piano. The hammer comes down on the Steel strings. On a Melotron, the hammer comes down, exactly the way same as a piano. But at the end of the hammer is a Tape Recorder playback head. Instead of Steel strings...there is an actual Tape...that runs 8 seconds. So the hammer comes down on the tape...revealing the A note of a Cello. You hear the first bowing of the string...just like it was really played...because it is a tape of someone playing. At the end of 8 seconds you had to lift you fingers off the key in order to the tape to rewind itself. These were enormously temperamental machines. And you needed lots of reverb in order for them to sound just right. Melotrons & Chamberlains were used so much in the late sixties and early seventies. Can be heard on all of those Moody Blues albums as well as many Beatle ablums and even Zepplin tracks.

Chamberlains had 8 instruments on them using a 1/2 tape. Melotrons had 3/8 tape with but 3 instruments on them.

I had Cello, Violin, French Horn, Oboe, Basson, Flute, Trumpet & Trombone.
Symphonic overtures will be a big part of my sound.

Anyway...Looking forward to any information you have on Keyboards and symphony programs. I understand it doesn't have to involve much monies these days to get great sounds. Just a Keyboard for $100 or so, and a Program from $100 to $400?

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

Can you explain to us what Choral Pad means? Does it mean the symphonic overtures you included?

"Pad" is a term used to describe a sustained fill sound. You can hear examples of such things here...


What you're calling "symphonic sounds" in that song are actually sounds synthesizing a choir. Back when we recorded that, I don't recall knowing of any sound programs that lived on the computer for doing that. I don't remember what module we used for that choral pad but was some box my friend had in his rack.

These days it's a lot easier to get those kinds of sounds. There are many programs out there that give you thousands of sounds and all you need to use them is your computer and a keyboard midi controller. My favorite program for those kinds of sounds today is Omnisphere 2 from Spectrasonics. That program provides over 14,000 different sounds, some listed here.

If you listen to this song, we used a choral pad from Omnisphere for all the ohs, ahs, and oos.


I use an M-Audio Hammer88 midi controller. It's a usb plug-&-play controller. 88 fully weighted keys and very uncomplicated.

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

This is my next biggest goal..to get a midi and symphonic programs. While I am looking forward to getting just such a system...I am not looking forward to learning how to set it up. I have heard that initiating and setting up the symphonic programs can be a little bit difficult.

It's really not hard to set up. Install the software and access it through your daw. In Pro Tools, I set up what they call an "Instrument" track and accessing Omnisphere or any other instrument program is no more complicated in instantiating a plugin.

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

I use to do all of my symphony overdubs with a Chamberlain, which was the first Melotron. I have long since sold that unit. Melotrons, Chamberlains, were tape run keyboards.

Another company whose products I really love is Toontrack. They make Superior Drummer which I've owned for many years. They also have an EZKeys lineup. One of the modules available for that is called "Mellotoon" which is a Melotron synth.

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

I had Cello, Violin, French Horn, Oboe, Basson, Flute, Trumpet & Trombone.
Symphonic overtures will be a big part of my sound.
Anyway...Looking forward to any information you have on Keyboards and symphony programs. I understand it doesn't have to involve much monies these days to get great sounds. Just a Keyboard for $100 or so, and a Program from $100 to $400?

There are some really excellent choices out there. I love cello and will sometimes use it in place of a bass guitar. My favorite cello program is Emotional Cello from Best Service. The realism is just astounding.


When it comes to violin, much of the decision comes down to how you want to use that instrument. When I use violin, it tends to be more like what people would call "fiddle" and the program I like for that is called Fiddle! from Bolder Sounds.


But if you're looking for violin in the more classical sense, there are two great choices, Emotional Violin from Best Service or any of the offerings from Chris Hein.



Chris Hein has a whole series of instruments, many are offered in bundles which save you quite a bit over buying them individually. His collection includes some instruments that are difficult to get right, like oboe and bassoon. Hein just nails them. I've never heard better than his lineup.


Like I said, there are some truly excellent programs out there. We're living in an amazing age.

[jim1960]

And if you ever find yourself in need of Uilleann Pipes, as I have for a song I wrote, Best Service Celtic Era has that and a whole lot more.
*This review butchers the name of the instrument. Despite all those extra letters, it's pronounced simply ILL-in pipes.

[AcousticDreams]

Thanks so much JIM1960 for all of your help!

wow...I have lots and lots and lots of studying to do...

All of those sounds...are incredible and what I am looking for.

The biggest problem for me is...Learning all of the ins and out of midi and programming= Overwhelming...the Chamberlain was simple...but limiting compared to all you have shown me.

And once again...the reason for the Recording Rant in the first place. Writing music is so much fun and rewarding...It can consume you...
Yet it is the recording..the learning..that takes so much time and...stops some of the writing progression.

Like anything else...I just have to get over the hump. But boy is it a big hump! it is going to take me a long time to jump that high.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

The biggest problem for me is...Learning all of the ins and out of midi and programming= Overwhelming...the Chamberlain was simple...but limiting compared to all you have shown me.

It's not nearly as hard as it appears. That's mainly because you don't have to add the keyed articulations and the notes at the same time. My method with instruments is to record the notes I want to hear, then go back and add the articulations afterwards.

If I tried to get the timing right on notes and also tried to come in slightly early with the keyed articulations, I'd be locked up in a room with soft walls.

[j3ffr0]

Great post by the OP; I resonate with it. When I started recording again about 9 months ago, the plan was to stick to solo finger style which represents most of what I'm trying to do. However, other songs have come and continue to come. In addition to getting down proof of concept for a bunch of fingerstlye stuff (including some covers), I've recorded a couple fully instrumented tunes (drums, bass, vocals) Adding that variety has been unexpectedly fulfilling and enjoyable!

I still have a ton of stuff I need get down. A mix of new tunes coming in on occasion and then and old stuff that just needs to be tracked. I'm planning to rotate in a fully instrumented tune (of whatever genre) into my recording plans every few months. It's a completely different experience, but it helps keep me fresh in mind and spirit for the fingerstyle stuff too. Getting better all the way around as I go and having fun.

One of the best decisions that I've made is deciding I'm going to record "proof of concept" versions of most everything before really publishing anything. That has allowed me to get something less than finished but half decent down for a lot of tunes and move on. Otherwise my perfectionist tendencies would take over and I'd have no hope of getting anything much done. The plan is to evaluate what I have completed the rough recordings for and determine which ones and worth re-tracking and/or polishing to be worthy of release. I don't know.... seems to be working for me right now.

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by j3ffr0

Great post by the OP; I resonate with it. When I started recording again about 9 months ago, the plan was to stick to solo finger style which represents most of what I'm trying to do. However, other songs have come and continue to come. In addition to getting down proof of concept for a bunch of fingerstlye stuff (including some covers), I've recorded a couple fully instrumented tunes (drums, bass, vocals) Adding that variety has been unexpectedly fulfilling and enjoyable!

I still have a ton of stuff I need get down. A mix of new tunes coming in on occasion and then and old stuff that just needs to be tracked. I'm planning to rotate in a fully instrumented tune (of whatever genre) into my recording plans every few months. It's a completely different experience, but it helps keep me fresh in mind and spirit for the fingerstyle stuff too. Getting better all the way around as I go and having fun.

One of the best decisions that I've made is deciding I'm going to record "proof of concept" versions of most everything before really publishing anything. That has allowed me to get something less than finished but half decent down for a lot of tunes and move on. Otherwise my perfectionist tendencies would take over and I'd have no hope of getting anything much done. The plan is to evaluate what I have completed the rough recordings for and determine which ones and worth re-tracking and/or polishing to be worthy of release. I don't know.... seems to be working for me right now.

The perfectionist tendencies is where I struggle the most. As I am far from a perfect player or singer. And far from an intuitive composer. Yet, I am far to vain to let any work out, least record it till I think it is close to my desired goal. Very stupidly, I won't even test record a working piece. Fear stands in the way. I fear that the recording will reveal that I am indeed far from perfect or my composition is not even worthy. Or even worse, I will be deaf to what the recording reveals because I am too immerse in it to hear the truth of it all.

But in an odd way, this seems to mostly work for me. Months later I will come back to a song that I had worked very hard on and forget how to play it. A simple test recording would have solved that...but If I can not easily figure out what I did...then I sometimes deem the song was of a nature not completely worthy. This method does however, allows me to come back with a fresh outlook and possibly make the needed changes.

I will work on one of my music pieces over and over...changing a few notes, a progression, and even chord structures. I know that something is not right, but often do no have any idea of the change I need to make. I get stuck in a path, when the path ultimately needs to be diverted. Eventually I get it & the path becomes clear. However to get to that clear path, some of my pieces have taken as much as seven years to complete. Seven years of just a few simple notes, chord, or chord structure changes. Well worth it in the end if it comes out as I had wished.

A recording is a confirmation of our existence. The recording will hopefully be a display of the very essence of our emotions and how we deal with them.

For those that are not musicians...it is often hard for others to understand the drive musicians have. There is nothing else that compares to having music vibrate through us, using our own hands & vocal chords.

I do it not for monetary gain, but to release the rhythm that drives my soul.

[j3ffr0]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

The perfectionist tendencies is where I struggle the most. As I am far from a perfect player or singer. And far from an intuitive composer. Yet, I am far to vain to let any work out, least record it till I think it is close to my desired goal. Very stupidly, I won't even test record a working piece. Fear stands in the way. I fear that the recording will reveal that I am indeed far from perfect or my composition is not even worthy. Or even worse, I will be deaf to what the recording reveals because I am too immerse in it to hear the truth of it all.

But in an odd way, this seems to mostly work for me. Months later I will come back to a song that I had worked very hard on and forget how to play it. A simple test recording would have solved that...but If I can not easily figure out what I did...then I sometimes deem the song was of a nature not completely worthy. This method does however, allows me to come back with a fresh outlook and possibly make the needed changes.

I will work on one of my music pieces over and over...changing a few notes, a progression, and even chord structures. I know that something is not right, but often do no have any idea of the change I need to make. I get stuck in a path, when the path ultimately needs to be diverted. Eventually I get it & the path becomes clear. However to get to that clear path, some of my pieces have taken as much as seven years to complete. Seven years of just a few simple notes, chord, or chord structure changes. Well worth it in the end if it comes out as I had wished.

A recording is a confirmation of our existence. The recording will hopefully be a display of the very essence of our emotions and how we deal with them.

For those that are not musicians...it is often hard for others to understand the drive musicians have. There is nothing else that compares to having music vibrate through us, using our own hands & vocal chords.

I do it not for monetary gain, but to release the rhythm that drives my soul.

Man, I'm in a similar boat. A few things combined to help me reach a critical mass to make progress in spite of my perfectionist tendencies.
- A conversation with the great Stephen Bennett about composing where he told me that the ideas that come and stay.... those are the ones that deserve to be finished.
-Following the conversation I did some deep introspection on what finished means to me. I decided that it meant that I had a proof of concept level recording.
-Based upon that I made short term goals for myself to get this song or that song done by the end of the month. I don't always hit them, but it's been moving me forward. I always keep a handful of covers and originals that I'm working up t record that proof of concept. Whatever bubbles up the fastest gets recorded first.

The good thing, is that I've learned so much since I started this recording thing in October. My first few songs, I had to play clean all the way through or punch in, because I didn't know how to comp. I'm still getting better at comping... Thank god for comping! I can clean up my slop.

I'm learning more about how well I have to play something to record it. I'm getting better at knowing when I have something worked up well enough.

Recording and mixing improvements and knowledge improving rapidly. I'm reading books and trying new things with each recording.

Letting myself realize that I'm probably going to eventually want to re-do almost everything I'm doing now is allowing me to move forward and make progress.

[Brent Hahn]

Put in the time, you’ll get better at it, and it’ll go faster.

[Bob Womack]

I feel like a song that really catches people's attention often has a character I call "inevitability." The idea there is that you come away from hearing the song feeling like it is familiar, unforced, and that it so of had to be the way it was. After listening to an old familiar Dan Fogelberg album from the '70s I got inspired to quit trying to be complex and just write a sing-songwriter song, and my friends have called the resultant song my best effort. You can read about how I wrote it and can hear it, HERE. There's a link to an accompanying page about how I recorded it, as well.

Bob

[reeve21]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

I feel like a song that really catches people's attention often has a character I call "inevitability." The idea there is that you come away from hearing the song feeling like it is familiar, unforced, and that it so of had to be the way it was. After listening to an old familiar Dan Fogelberg album from the '70s I got inspired to quit trying to be complex and just write a sing-songwriter song, and my friends have called the resultant song my best effort. You can read about how I wrote it and can hear it, HERE. There's a link to an accompanying page about how I recorded it, as well.

Bob

Great song, great performance and great recording