Matching Mics to Audio Interface

[SprintBob]

I’ve got a pretty good investment in three mics, a matched set of KM184’s and an Austrian Audio OC818. I’ve been quite happy with the results using the mics in a couple of spaced pair combos (184/818 or both 184’s).

My signal chain is the mics into a Scarlett 2i4 USB interface and then into Reaper on my Dell laptop.

Could I improve the chain with a better USB interface? The Scarlett gets good reviews but wondering if I am getting the most from my mics with this interface.

Appreciate any feedback.

[Gordon Currie]

The weak link in all moderately priced interfaces is the preamp, NOT the A/D or D/A conversion.

If you want to take a step up, rather than replacing the entire interface, consider getting a dedicated mic preamp. Better to spend your dollars on improvement that might be audible (preamp) first rather than inaudible under actual use (interface).

[DukeX]

Originally Posted by Gordon Currie

The weak link in all moderately priced interfaces is the preamp, NOT the A/D or D/A conversion.

If you want to take a step up, rather than replacing the entire interface, consider getting a dedicated mic preamp. Better to spend your dollars on improvement that might be audible (preamp) first rather than inaudible under actual use (interface).

That would be my advice as well.

[jim1960]

I agree. The next best upgrade is likely a good preamp. There are a lot of great options out there, many of them included on the Master List.

[runamuck]

Originally Posted by Gordon Currie

Better to spend your dollars on improvement that might be audible (preamp) first rather than inaudible under actual use (interface).

I just wanted to emphasize this.

[jim1960]

If SprintBob went from the Scarlett 2i4 USB to a high end converter, there would be an audible difference. I just want to make that point in case anyone gets the impression converters don't really matter. Converters do impart a sound and vibe, although, at a certain level it just becomes about preferences. The Scarlett 2i4 USB isn't at that level but I think a preamp is going to provide more bang for the buck and you don't have to bang too many bucks for a great preamp on the used market.

I just took a look on Reverb and there's a Sebatron AXIS 200VU on sale for $1300. The seller will entertain offers. I own one and it's an excellent and versatile preamp. It sells brand new for $1850, shipped. If I were in the market for a preamp, I'd try to get that seller down to about $1050-1100. That preamp will make a bigger improvement in your sound than an interface in that price range.

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

...I’ve been quite happy with the results using the mics in a couple of spaced pair combos...

What's your room like?

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by shufflebeat

What's your room like?

Yes I was going to ask that. I would suggest if untreated ? look at the room and some absorption options first,

Then the pre amp, and then perhaps finally the conversion

While the conventional wisdom often goes ::

Room >player> guitar/voice etc. > mic placement > mic > pre > conversion

I agree with Jim I think ultimately the conversion matters (but may not be as easily noticeable as the other components) .
I think what better quality conversion brings to the table is more "space, depth, and clarity" to the entire sound ....More of a live spacious "in the room" feeling , and is what many perceive as being more 3D'-ish with more space front to back...... Or conversely when the conversion is of modest quality the sound is more 2D-ish lacking that front to back pace and or flat sounding

[SprintBob]

Wow, great feedback.

To answer some questions above, my recording space is small as it is an 8’ x 10’ spare bedroom with 8 foot ceilings. I setup my mics within the Vee shape of a self standing Gobo and the results seem pretty decent.

X


So I need to confirm that the advice above is based on the mics going into the preamp and then the preamp to the Scarlett, and finally the Scarlett to the DAW?

Would you typically go from the preamp outputs via an XLR cable(s) to the mic inputs on the Scarlett?

Thanks again!

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

So I need to confirm that the advice above is based on the mics going into the preamp and then the preamp to the Scarlett, and finally the Scarlett to the DAW?

Would you typically go from the preamp outputs via an XLR cable(s) to the mic inputs on the Scarlett?

You plug your mic into the preamp's XLR connector. Then connect the preamp to your Scarlett via the front-side XLR/TRS connector and set the channel to "Line."

While it doesn't really matter sound wise whether you use an XLR or TRS connector with microphones, I try to stick to XLR connectors on any cables that I might plug or unplug while hot. As it was explained to me many years ago, if you plug or unplug hot with a TRS cable, you can pass current where you don't want it and possibly damage the mic.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

…Could I improve the chain with a better USB interface? The Scarlett gets good reviews but wondering if I am getting the most from my mics with this interface.

Hi SB

I'm taking a 'practical' approach.

There are better preamps than Scarlett out there. They also cost substantially more.

Scarlett, and a long list of other preamps, get good reviews from average players and listeners, because they produce GOOD RESULTS.

If you are playing/saving/dispensing your music on SoundCloud, YouTube, FaceBook, Zoom etc. then people are likely consuming it on their phones, tablets, and computers.

None of the common ways MOST people listen to our music is maximizing the current level of capability of your gear.

Only very picky people will hear & note any difference, even if you are using a $10,000 handbuilt preamp with $20,000 mics.

By the way…the one or two who might hear/take note of the difference will be making mental adjustments to your inferior results…my use of the word inferior is intended as irony.

If it matters to you, then by all means spend more, and take the time to learn to operate/maximize another piece of gear.

[DukeX]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi SB

I'm taking a 'practical' approach.

There are better preamps than Scarlett out there. They also cost substantially more.

Scarlett, and a long list of other preamps, get good reviews from average players and listeners, because they produce GOOD RESULTS.

If you are playing/saving/dispensing your music on SoundCloud, YouTube, FaceBook, Zoom etc. then people are likely consuming it on their phones, tablets, and computers.

None of the common ways MOST people listen to our music is maximizing the current level of capability of your gear.

Only very picky people will hear & note any difference, even if you are using a $10,000 handbuilt preamp with $20,000 mics.

By the way…the one or two who might hear/take note of the difference will be making mental adjustments to your inferior results…my use of the word inferior is intended as irony.

If it matters to you, then by all means spend more, and take the time to learn to operate/maximize another piece of gear.

Of course, you can say the same thing about guitars. No? Yet look at the guitars we buy.

Also, he's using fairly expensive high end mics. Can we tell a difference in a blind test?

Being practical, why spend that kind of money on guitars and mics and plug them into a cheap $100 mic pre (which is about what the pres in the Scarlett are worth).

[KarenB]

I have a Summit Audio 2BA-221 Preamp. It has a "dial in the amount you want" tube. It's lovely sounding. I can definately hear an improvement when I use this preamp rather than the pres of my Focusrite Clarett 4 Pre.

[runamuck]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

Wow, great feedback.

To answer some questions above, my recording space is small as it is an 8’ x 10’ spare bedroom with 8 foot ceilings. I setup my mics within the Vee shape of a self standing Gobo and the results seem pretty decent.



So I need to confirm that the advice above is based on the mics going into the preamp and then the preamp to the Scarlett, and finally the Scarlett to the DAW?

Would you typically go from the preamp outputs via an XLR cable(s) to the mic inputs on the Scarlett?

Thanks again!

In your recording I hear a raspy high end that is certainly not being caused by your mics ( unless they're broken), and that I doubt is being caused by the Scarlett. So I suspect you need more room treatment than the gobos you're using.

BTW - What are the gobos made from?

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by DukeX

…Being practical, why spend that kind of money on guitars and mics and plug them into a cheap $100 mic pre (which is about what the pres in the Scarlett are worth).

Hi Duke
I don't see escalating my purchases (and improving my operating skills) till all my equipment & skill is at the same technical level as being practical.

I primarily want to make music, and have it available to others after they have heard me play.

The more high end gear I purchase to record with, the more I have to learn how to operate it, maximize it, integrate it, & modify my recording space to capture it. All in pursuit of sharing the music I love to play.

It's great if that's one's interest/hobby. At age 72 it's no longer a passion.

At some point, most of us end up deciding which sections of our recording chain may spec-out at the same level as all the supporting components, and which parts of the chain can survive less expensive gear, and still do a decent job of recording.

We players might be better off by going to a small well equipped studio, having them provide the high end recording/mixing gear & expertise, etc and having them capture it for us.

That way we'd not end up with racks full of rapidly aging equipment which mostly go unused.

As to the guitars 'we' own…
I play my hand-built guitars acoustically in small intimate situations more than on stage. And sometimes, people who are listening wear hearing aids, and many totally are ignorant of the quality in my instruments and gear.

My guitars always sound great acoustically in small intimate settings.

And listeners don't come up after and say 'cool guitar'.

I enjoy playing music and interacting with 10 people as much as I do with hundreds. They say things like I loved that song about the Dark Clouds, or boy it's been years since I heard "The Water Is Wide…what a great song".

I'm guessing that's how they listen to recordings as well. I'm still in the transitional phase of not burning and handing people CDs.

Should I distribute my music on:
Thumb Drives?
Personal Website?
YouTube?
FaceBook?
SoundCloud?

I have family who still USE the 8 Track players in their trucks.

Anyway, this is an interesting thread, and I'm just tossing in some practical things (maybe) I learned after owning/operating a small acoustic studio for other musicians for 8 years.

What I actually learned was I like playing for others more than I enjoy recording, and mixing, and providing a decent space and great gear for others.

And in the end, I ended up giving away the aging gear to young budding musicians and to prison charities who go to prisons and teach inmates how to record, capture and share music.