What are your thoughts about tipping?

[Pura Vida]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

It's not tipping I believe in, it's overtipping.

Vincent "Vinnie" Antonelli

You don’t tip FBI men!

— Barney Coopersmith

[Pura Vida]

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

What constitutes good service in Europe, for example, is very different than what we are accustomed to in the U.S. This is in large part (not completely) due to cultural expectations and preferences.

When my European relatives come here, they don't care for the level of attention they get here, they find it invasive, and often artificial or phony. The preference there is for service to be rendered upon request rather than having servers interrupt you checking if "everything [is] OK" during your meal. The lack of tipping almost certainly plays into the behavior of servers, humans and incentives being what they are, but is not the entire or even most of the story.

This x1000. Service expectations in the States are unrealistic, especially for people who have never worked in the food service industry. IMHO, the only thing more ridiculous than assigning an absurdly low wage for servers is choosing to discount or ignore our tipping system b/c someone didn’t patronize you enough or bring you a glass of water as fast as you’d like. If someone isn’t on board with the domestic tipping system, then they shouldn’t patronize restaurants with staff who are relying on those tips.

And I find my meals more enjoyable, when I’m traveling internationally, where I’m not rushed through my meal or being interrupted repeatedly by the service, so we all feel better about the gratuity. The 10-15% is built in, and we usually leave a little extra for exceptional service (or places that we frequent).

Stepping off the soapbox, now. OMMV.

[1neeto]

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

I think another thing to consider here is that not all jobs which include tipping are equal. While I have a lot of sympathy for the "living wage" argument, it's probably worth sharing an example from my own history.

When in college I tended bar. I did it at a couple of places, and the reason I did that job had a few components. One, the time of day made some sense, I could get my schoolwork done and then go to work. The other is that it was fun. At the end of the day though, I did it because I made a good deal of money compared to other jobs I might have. I also worked on a farm, where I was paid a living wage, but I made way more money tending bar. I was able to work 3, maybe 4 nights a week at most tending bar, which fit well within my school schedule. No job I could have gotten at that point would have paid me what bartending did in the relatively short amount of time per week I worked. I would make $200-$300 a night in tips during the early 90's, and was able to graduate college w/o any debt.

No way anyone would have paid me that per night for 8 hours of work–it broke down to $28 to $35 an hour. So if we're getting rid of tipping, we're putting a hard ceiling on what someone can make in a night. I would NOT have been happy about that in my bartending days, and I guarantee you none of the wait staff would have been happy about it either, they might have been making more, or the same in a shorter shift.

For those advocating the removal of tipping and having business owners paying a living wage, what do you say to folks who are compensated like this? I'm genuinely curious if there are good answers to that problem. Personally I don't see them yet.

The national median income for tipped employees is less than $25,000 a year, or about $11.75 an hour. That’s after tips. That’s the reality, everyone knows someone who knows someone that makes $200 in one night on tips, but most struggle. One can argue that most cash tips are not reported, but servers still get taxed for tips they may or may have not gotten. The vast majority of restaurant servers work at small restaurants, not 5 star $100 per person restaurants.

Banning tipping and making the employer pay an adequate salary to servers is better for everyone, from the employee to the customer. It takes power away from jerks who leverage the good service incentive, it removes the awkward moment when it’s time to pay the bill, and it lowers the stress to over worked servers that think they have to kiss the bottom of rude customer shoes in order to get a good tip.

[Dirk Hofman]

I was taxed at 8% of my sales whether I made it or not. It was a $15 a plate place not unlike a TGI Friday’s. You’re getting the hourly wage by using a 40 hour work week which isn’t often the case.

That said, I have sympathy for this point of view. I just want it realized that you are capping some very large number of real peoples real earnings in the interest of fairness. This troubles me but isn’t necessarily a deal breaker. I would like to know more before I formed an opinion. I’ll say maybe it’s worth trying.

[MikeBmusic]

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

What constitutes good service in Europe, for example, is very different than what we are accustomed to in the U.S. This is in large part (not completely) due to cultural expectations and preferences.

When my European relatives come here, they don't care for the level of attention they get here, they find it invasive, and often artificial or phony. The preference there is for service to be rendered upon request rather than having servers interrupt you checking if "everything [is] OK" during your meal. The lack of tipping almost certainly plays into the behavior of servers, humans and incentives being what they are, but is not the entire or even most of the story.

Oh, I dislike the 'hovering' waitperson, too. What I was referring to was a long wait to order, and then never seeing the wait person after the food was brought out (sometimes by someone else), so I could not even order another drink, and sometimes having to go find a person to get the bill!

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by MikeBmusic

Oh, I dislike the 'hovering' waitperson, too. What I was referring to was a long wait to order, and then never seeing the wait person after the food was brought out (sometimes by someone else), so I could not even order another drink, and sometimes having to go find a person to get the bill!

That's all quite typical of European service. They prefer it that way, they linger of their meals much more than we do and consider someone giving them the check w/o asking extremely rude.

That said, I wasn't there obviously. Just trying to offer a perspective on how Europeans view service. Maybe you just had a bad waiter. Maybe some of it was a difference in expectations.

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by Pura Vida

You don’t tip FBI men!

— Barney Coopersmith

Have a nice day!