The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Carbon Fiber

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 05-28-2023, 11:12 AM
Aspiring Aspiring is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,751
Default New Disguised carbon classical guitar day (sound sample added)

I thought I would share this here.

I just picked up a new to me gently used Hanika New Century Doubletop.

The interesting thing to me was how much carbon and other modern construction is in it.

This is my first experience trying a double top. It also has a double back which I learned is a two layer back using carbon and an air gap in the insides of the back to eliminate damping of the back from your body and possibly acting as a second inner soundboard. You can see the carbon on the inside layer of the Doubletop in the inspection mirror. The construction of the double top is outer layer ultra thin cedar core of nomex and then back layer of carbon.

There is also carbon in the neck.

From the outside of course this looks like a modern take on a traditional classical. Of course there is wood and wood bracing and appropriate glues in a good portion of this instrument.

I am curious how sensitive to humidity and heat this instrument will end up actually being. Also cool to see where modern materials can take the traditional instrument as long as the buyers are open. In this instance the goal for the company was to create a concert classical that uses the modern materials to enhance the characteristics of the wood as a primary.



Attachment 92916Attachment 92917Attachment 92919Attachment 92918
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20230528_100241598.jpg (60.6 KB, 241 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20230527_072859723.jpg (65.3 KB, 239 views)

Last edited by Aspiring; 06-04-2023 at 09:14 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-28-2023, 11:40 AM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rochester, New York
Posts: 12,434
Default

That's A Nice-Looking, Innovative Guitar, Aspiring! I'm all for adding modern construction materials and techniques to enhance traditional craftsmanship. I would think it would respond similarly to humidity as woukld any all-solid-wood instrument. How does your Hanika Classical sound and do you hear the double-back isolating or minimizing any body dampening from its tone?
__________________
Martin HD-28 Sunburst/Trance M-VT Phantom
Martin D-18/UltraTonic
Huss & Dalton TD-R
Adamas MD80 NWT
Adamas I 2087GT-8
Ovation Custom Legend LX
Guild F-212XL STD
Taylor 717e
Taylor 618e
Taylor 614ce
Larrivee D-50M/HiFi
Larrivee D-40R Blue Grass Special/HiFi
Larrivee D-40R Sunburst
Larrivee C-03R TE/Trance M-VT Phantom
RainSong BI-DR1000N2
Emerald X20
Yamaha FGX5
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-28-2023, 11:49 AM
Aspiring Aspiring is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,751
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpruceTop View Post
That's A Nice-Looking, Innovative Guitar, Aspiring! I'm all for adding modern construction materials and techniques to enhance traditional craftsmanship. How does your Hanika Classical sound?
Thanks SpruceTop. To say I'm mesmerized by the sound is an understatement. That said I don't have much experience with true concert grade classical to compare it to.

However compared to my Emerald X7 Nylon it is a massive difference. Particularly in projection, volume and sustain.

I played with my girlfriend yesterday as she played her flute and the Hanika easily cut through whereas with even my J45 clone Avalon I'm typically hard pressed to match. The X7 has needed the amplifier so I can even hear myself over her flute. She also said she could hear me clearly as well.

As further justification for a larger collection of guitars she also commented on how it was cool that my acoustics hanging on the wall were picking up and vibrating sympathetically with her flute.

As to the double back it is hard to say for sure how much that contributes overall however in the comparison videos online I could hear a richness and depth in the Hanika double back vs their similar instruments in non double back that sounds similar to what I hear playing the instrument. I am curious how a similar outside sized instrument without the double back would compare. The double back takes up considerable depth about 30mm from my measurement.

Last edited by Aspiring; 05-28-2023 at 11:57 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-28-2023, 02:56 PM
mountainmaster mountainmaster is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 586
Default

Congratulations! Hanika guitars are amazing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspiring View Post
I am curious how sensitive to humidity and heat this instrument will end up actually being.
One material responds to temperature and humidity, the other does not. Stick them together and what do you get? A lot of unwanted friction between the two?

At least, that is what the alarm bells in my head are saying. Considering Hanika's reputation I am sure those bells are very wrong. But what kind of magic did they use to pull this off?
__________________
Emerald X30
Emerald X20 Nylon
Emerald X7 Nylon
Rainsong Smokey SMH
Outdoor Guitalele
Taylor 522e 12-fret ✝
Gitane DG-560 nylon ✝
Alhambra 3C CW
Eastman AR910CE
Recording King RM-991 tricone resonator
Recording King RK-G25 6-string banjo
Thomann Irish Bouzouki M1089
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-29-2023, 08:09 AM
jricc jricc is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Jersey Shore
Posts: 5,205
Default

That is a very classy looking instrument. Very cool use of carbon and traditional materials. Congrats on a nice Hanika. Would love to hear a demo.
__________________
-Joe

Martin 000-1
Rainsong CH-OM
Martin SC10e sapele


My Band's Spotify page https://open.spotify.com/artist/2KKD...SVeZXf046SaPoQ
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-29-2023, 08:49 AM
KevinH's Avatar
KevinH KevinH is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 3,409
Default

That is an interesting guitar - not only in the design but also their subtle inclusion of carbon into various parts. Something for both the wood lover and the carbonista.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspiring View Post
... As further justification for a larger collection of guitars she also commented on how it was cool that my acoustics hanging on the wall were picking up and vibrating sympathetically with her flute...
I think we can all see where this is headed
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-29-2023, 12:33 PM
casualmusic casualmusic is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 471
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainmaster View Post
Congratulations! Hanika guitars are amazing.



One material responds to temperature and humidity, the other does not. Stick them together and what do you get? A lot of unwanted friction between the two?

At least, that is what the alarm bells in my head are saying. Considering Hanika's reputation I am sure those bells are very wrong. But what kind of magic did they use to pull this off?

Dried wood is made of slightly elastic cellulose cell walls (no cell contents).

Depending on humidity the cell walls will expand or contract. Unconstrained wood cells will expand and contract evenly. Constrained cells will bulge towards the unconstrained side.

Immovable carbon fibre is bonded to the wood and its strength prevents wood movement at the bonded surface which means no cracks at the bonded surface.

Under changing humidity the wood will bulge or contract towards the unconstrained side, but the thinness of the wood plate means the wood layer will simply get thicker or thinner.

The same way that a fiberglas or carbon fibre layer on a cedar strip canoe will prevent deep cracks.

Cheers.
__________________
2018 RainSong H-DR1000N2/T copper burst - carbon fibre
2016 CA Cargo black - carbon fibre
2016 Fender Telecaster thinline
2014 Fender Concert Pro (New Hartford) - red spruce, mahogany

Last edited by casualmusic; 05-29-2023 at 12:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-29-2023, 04:54 PM
Aspiring Aspiring is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,751
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jricc View Post
That is a very classy looking instrument. Very cool use of carbon and traditional materials. Congrats on a nice Hanika. Would love to hear a demo.
I was inspired to pick up a version of Scarborough Fair that I found and have been working on with the new guitar. I will see if I can put a recording together of that in a bit.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-29-2023, 04:57 PM
Aspiring Aspiring is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,751
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post


I think we can all see where this is headed
I am sure you were thinking of more guitar flute duets right?

The problem is with her strong music background we have yet to find something that challenges her but is something that I can work with and learn in a reasonable time.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-29-2023, 04:59 PM
Aspiring Aspiring is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,751
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by casualmusic View Post
Dried wood is made of slightly elastic cellulose cell walls (no cell contents).

Depending on humidity the cell walls will expand or contract. Unconstrained wood cells will expand and contract evenly. Constrained cells will bulge towards the unconstrained side.

Immovable carbon fibre is bonded to the wood and its strength prevents wood movement at the bonded surface which means no cracks at the bonded surface.

Under changing humidity the wood will bulge or contract towards the unconstrained side, but the thinness of the wood plate means the wood layer will simply get thicker or thinner.

The same way that a fiberglas or carbon fibre layer on a cedar strip canoe will prevent deep cracks.

Cheers.
Good to know! I have seen a lot of wood / carbon bonded together in sailboats. Including red cedar core in kevlar glass although in theory that should not get moisture inside.

I am hoping it will be more stable than a regular classical but time will tell. So far the neck hasn't moved perceptibly after arriving in the case from New Mexico with a humidifier that was bone dry in it

It has been basking in the 45% or so of my house for 5 days now.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-04-2023, 08:19 AM
Aspiring Aspiring is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,751
Default

I've been working on my playing and learning for Scarborough Fair. Very much in love with the sounds I can get from this guitar. Arrangement based on the one from John Hall on his website.

Recording is done with DPA core microphone and ISA one pre and Fractal FX3 using a pre amp model some reverb and a stereo enhancer.

https://on.soundcloud.com/h9UwD

Last edited by Aspiring; 06-04-2023 at 08:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-04-2023, 06:00 PM
KevinH's Avatar
KevinH KevinH is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 3,409
Default

Very nice Ron. I can see (hear) why you like the Hanika.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-06-2023, 10:23 AM
Aspiring Aspiring is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,751
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post
Very nice Ron. I can see (hear) why you like the Hanika.
Thanks Kevin!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-11-2023, 06:11 PM
Aspiring Aspiring is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,751
Default

KevinH came by for a visit today and I had a chance to hear the Hanika with someone else playing.

Very happy for what I am hearing on the other side as well.

It also confirmed the volume / projection. Kevin brought his resonator (also a super fun to play guitar ) and the Hanika was keeping up in output both from ears and using a sound meter.

The resonator did not decay anywhere near as quickly though resulting in a higher average volume.

The Hanika was noticeably louder than my X20.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-12-2023, 09:40 AM
jricc jricc is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Jersey Shore
Posts: 5,205
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspiring View Post
I was inspired to pick up a version of Scarborough Fair that I found and have been working on with the new guitar. I will see if I can put a recording together of that in a bit.
Sounds very nice, sustains well, thanks for posting the demo Ron!
__________________
-Joe

Martin 000-1
Rainsong CH-OM
Martin SC10e sapele


My Band's Spotify page https://open.spotify.com/artist/2KKD...SVeZXf046SaPoQ
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Carbon Fiber

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=