External mic to blend with pickup?

[EasilyAmused]

Next weekend I’m playing 3 different folk club types of gigs doing a Gordon Lightfoot tribute (I’m playing all the Red Shea / Terry Clements stuff), and with it being a more critics listening audience, I’m hoping to add a mic to add some detail to the sound (also, we are doing things in lightfoots 60s trio style - just 2 acoustics and bass, and I’m sitting all of the time).

For playing live, what might be a good mic to use to augment the pickup sound from the guitar? I’ve got an SM57, but here in Canada it is also currently half price rentals at Long & McQuade, so I’m pondering renting a mic if there’s something that would work better.

I’ve used condensers in the studio, but I feel like a condenser might just be inviting feedback and isolation issues, but maybe I’m wrong (or maybe it is a matter of using the right condenser?).

[Mbroady]

What pickup do you use.

The 57 has good off axis rejection. That coupled with the fact that they can take a beating make it an industry/venue standard.
A pick up combined with a 57 can do wonders for the sound. I would go as far as saying it can rival or do better them some dual source pickups.

Unless you are playing in Carnegie hall (or other amazing sounding room) most of the benefits of using a condenser mic disappear in a live performance

Are those rooms that good. If yes, then they might even have a nice mic for you to use.

[Robin, Wales]

I'm sure that your SM57 will do just fine. Get as much as you can foh from the mic', then fill in with the p/u if you need to.

I mic' my acoustic guitars rather than plug in at gigs and I think that the "trick", if there is one, is how I use the vocal mic'. If I'm 6" to 9" back from the vocal mic' then I can be 6" to 9" back from the instrument mic' and the foh is balanced easily. If I'm on top of the vocal mic' then mic'ing my guitar doesn't work as well. I lose the ballance.

[L20A]

Where you place an external mic will drastically effect the tone that it produces.

I find that placing an SM-57 near where the neck of the guitar attaches to the body is generally a good placement.
I place the mic about 9" from the guitar for best results.

[EasilyAmused]

Originally Posted by Mbroady

What pickup do you use.

The 57 has good off axis rejection. That coupled with the fact that they can take a beating make it an industry/venue standard.
A pick up combined with a 57 can do wonders for the sound. I would go as far as saying it can rival or do better them some dual source pickups.

Unless you are playing in Carnegie hall (or other amazing sounding room) most of the benefits of using a condenser mic disappear in a live performance

Are those rooms that good. If yes, then they might even have a nice mic for you to use.

I've got a K&K in one guitar, and a fishman matrix in another (which I run through an IR). Both certainly sound better with an actual microphone on them!

We ran a rehearsal yesterday with a small pa and SM57s on the guitars combined with the pickups, it did sound good, and a lot more full than the pickups alone (which didn't sound bad, but the mics just sounded so much more 3D and REAL!).

My only concern with the 57 is it always feels like the gain is really low on an SM57 for picking up an acoustic guitar. I wonder if it Beta 57 would be nicer? I just upgraded my SM58 vocal mic to a Beta58 and it made singing a whole lot easier, and I kind of feel like it might be a similar thing with the beta 57.

[Chriscom]

Originally Posted by EasilyAmused

My only concern with the 57 is it always feels like the gain is really low on an SM57 for picking up an acoustic guitar. I wonder if it Beta 57 would be nicer? I just upgraded my SM58 vocal mic to a Beta58 and it made singing a whole lot easier, and I kind of feel like it might be a similar thing with the beta 57.

I've been using this FetHed to boost signal gain in my vocal mics for some time

http://https://www.sweetwater.com/st...rophone-preamp

Including a 58 when I first started and my Sennheiser e935 currently. Before that, I used the pricier Cloudlifter CL-1 box. Whether that makes sense for you depends on whether phantom is easily available, and how much you'd spend on a different mic anyway.

[Charlie Bernstein]

If you can use a mic, why use a pickup, too? Your pickup doesn't sound like your guitar. A mic will. If you like your guitar's tone, I wouldn't compromise the mic's sound with a pickup.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein

If you can use a mic, why use a pickup, too? Your pickup doesn't sound like your guitar. A mic will. If you like your guitar's tone, I wouldn't compromise the mic's sound with a pickup.

I've seen a number of folks here on the forum relate that they like the combo systems with an internal mic because they can achieve high stage volume with the pickup and blend a little mic in for presence and to brighten up the tone a bit. It's usually stated that if they try just the mic then feedback often prevents using the mic when they want higher stage volume.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Chriscom

I've been using this FetHed to boost signal gain in my vocal mics for some time

http://https://www.sweetwater.com/st...rophone-preamp

Including a 58 when I first started and my Sennheiser e935 currently. Before that, I used the pricier Cloudlifter CL-1 box. Whether that makes sense for you depends on whether phantom is easily available, and how much you'd spend on a different mic anyway.

Having some experience with Behringer products, I'm betting that their new in line mic pre with 27db of gain probably works well, especially considering it's low price.

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

I've seen a number of folks here on the forum relate that they like the combo systems with an internal mic because they can achieve high stage volume with the pickup and blend a little mic in for presence and to brighten up the tone a bit. It's usually stated that if they try just the mic then feedback often prevents using the mic when they want higher stage volume.

In terms of feedback, and internal mic' is a very different proposition to an external mic. If your vocal mic' doesn't feedback then your external instrument mic' shouldn't either.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

I've seen a number of folks here on the forum relate that they like the combo systems with an internal mic because they can achieve high stage volume with the pickup and blend a little mic in for presence and to brighten up the tone a bit. It's usually stated that if they try just the mic then feedback often prevents using the mic when they want higher stage volume.

Feedback's not the only concern with an internal mic - it can be an issue, but perhaps the biggest challenge is that the inside of a guitar just isn't a good environment for a mic. The guitar is a small boomy box, and the results will sound like it, usually, if you try to use an internal mic alone. Roll off the low end, and you can mix a little mic in with another more solid-sounding pickup to add air and a sense of realism.

Baggs takes this approach with the Anthem, where they have a crossover, so the mic only handles frequencies above 250Hz, and the UST handles the low. It's a pretty common approach, even if done manually via EQ rather than as part of the pickup system's electronics. Reducing the lows also helps with low frequency feedback from the mic, but I'd roll off the lows even if feedback wasn't going to occur, just for the sound quality.

Even a little bit of mic in the mix can help most pickups, so if feedback is a problem, you can use just a little, however much you can get away with.

[Stringmaster]

Originally Posted by EasilyAmused

I've got a K&K in one guitar, and a fishman matrix in another (which I run through an IR). Both certainly sound better with an actual microphone on them!

We ran a rehearsal yesterday with a small pa and SM57s on the guitars combined with the pickups, it did sound good, and a lot more full than the pickups alone (which didn't sound bad, but the mics just sounded so much more 3D and REAL!).

My only concern with the 57 is it always feels like the gain is really low on an SM57 for picking up an acoustic guitar. I wonder if it Beta 57 would be nicer? I just upgraded my SM58 vocal mic to a Beta58 and it made singing a whole lot easier, and I kind of feel like it might be a similar thing with the beta 57.

I have a friend who plays mostly unplugged (guitar and mandolin ) in a Bluegrass/Old-Timey type band and always gets a good sound and appropriate volume with a mic. I asked him how, and he said it was all about using a Beta 57A, and that it was a game-changer for him over the standard 57. They use traditional speakers (QSC K12s) on stands. That said, I think he's installed K&K's in a couple of his guitars--haven't seen the band since then.