Questions abt room acoustics

[lppier]

Hi, I've more or less settled with using the Shure SM7B to record vocals (for now) given the traffic noise from the nearby expressway. Condensors would likely pick up more traffic noise due to their sensitive nature.

To improve the recordings, I think there's 2 more things I can do:

1) Vocal lessons (signed up)
2) Room acoustics

I'm kind of relegated to a corner of the room for my recording shenanigans as shown in the picture here:

https://imgur.com/a/QNwNecK


Wonder if there's anything else i can do to improve this situation?
Do these work?
https://www.amazon.sg/CODN-Recording...80c743da911369
They're fairly affordable on e-commerce sites so wondering if it's even worth a try.

[lppier]

https://imgur.com/a/PT0Dc04

Is this recommended? I put a memory foam pillow behind the shure

[Chipotle]

There are two different aspects to studio noise:

1. External sounds leaking in. This can be difficult to address without drastic measures. Studios in busy places build entire "rooms within rooms" to decouple vibrations of the outside walls with the inner walls of the studio. Thick, massive walls (like brick) can help, but any "weak" spots like windows can be tough. I also live on a busy street with largish windows facing; I got a 6db improvement by covering them with plywood panels, although that might not fly in your house.

2. Internal sounds bouncing around the inside of the room. This is what most acoustic treatments deal with--panels that absorb or diffuse the reflections off the walls, floor and ceiling to eliminate unwanted echoes and weird frequency interactions. They don't do anything for noise coming from outside, but they make the inside of your room sound better. I've never used one of those mic shields; some say they help but they can even cause their own strange problems.

[KevWind]

First (IN GENERAL) Yes
#1 dynamics tend to be less sensitive overall so that would include outside noise coming in and room reflections
#2 small rooms tend to be more problematic for reflection issues
#3 corner positions tend be even more problematic for both recording and listening positioning

Now can we assume the curtain in the photo is covering floor to ceiling glass like sliding door etc ? if so that can be a reflection issue also

Also a photo from further out in room would be nice to see your entire set up
With that in mind can we assume the speaker your mic stand is on, is one of pair of studio monitors ?
Corners are particularly problematic for monitor speaker positions

Also you mention dynamic for vocal but have not disclosed if you are using a one mic solution or if you are using something else for guitar ?


Note the pyramid foam is pretty much worthless except for possibly slowing a tiny amount slap back high frequency energy
The memory foam being more dense is probably a bit better.
BUT both are so small in dimension and absorption that it is akin to putting a bandaid on a cancer lesion .



So- If you are relegated to the corner ( I can identify)
Then::
Depending on your budget range

The first thing I would is get a floor mic stand and 15 ft. mic cable so you can record further out from the corner

Then I would consider getting or building some 2 ft by 4 ft absorption panels out of either Owens Corning 703 -or- Rock Wool Safe and Sound - Gobo style (free standing)

And also because of being in a corner and up against a wall ,, consider getting a pair of head phones for mixing which you can use with the speakers to check things like stereo field balance and overall mix balance .

Here is my solution for being in a corner
I am obviously not dealing with glass as the near side wall but you get the idea



And here are my three Gobo style (on home made stands) that I place behind me when recording

[b1j]

Question about panels in front vs. in back of the mic: Does it make more sense to put the panels behind you (in front of the mic)?

[lppier]

More pics of my bedroom for reference

[lppier]

Originally Posted by Chipotle

There are two different aspects to studio noise:



1. External sounds leaking in. This can be difficult to address without drastic measures. Studios in busy places build entire "rooms within rooms" to decouple vibrations of the outside walls with the inner walls of the studio. Thick, massive walls (like brick) can help, but any "weak" spots like windows can be tough. I also live on a busy street with largish windows facing; I got a 6db improvement by covering them with plywood panels, although that might not fly in your house.



2. Internal sounds bouncing around the inside of the room. This is what most acoustic treatments deal with--panels that absorb or diffuse the reflections off the walls, floor and ceiling to eliminate unwanted echoes and weird frequency interactions. They don't do anything for noise coming from outside, but they make the inside of your room sound better. I've never used one of those mic shields; some say they help but they can even cause their own strange problems.

I have the curtains covering the windows which does give me an audible reduction in sound, but not completely. I did not measure though.

I have quite a few pillows lying around, hopefully they do help to dampen the sound. With dynamic mics it seems to be ok. I had tried with my beyerdynamic mc930 sdc lying around , and when I try to belt, there’s a weird tinge of metallic slapback and strange compression. Or at least what sounds like compression to my ears . It might be a property of this mic with vocals but I don’t think so.

How do u reliably test the acoustics? I see YouTubers doing a clap test.

[lppier]

Originally Posted by KevWind

First (IN GENERAL) Yes
Now can we assume the curtain in the photo is covering floor to ceiling glass like sliding door etc ? if so that can be a reflection issue also

It's from half the height, just covering the glass window. It's made of fairly thick material.

Also you mention dynamic for vocal but have not disclosed if you are using a one mic solution or if you are using something else for guitar ?

For acoustic guitar, i'm using jack in - there's a nice pickup system (with mic) and for my purposes I'm not too concerned.

Note the pyramid foam is pretty much worthless except for possibly slowing a tiny amount slap back high frequency energy
The memory foam being more dense is probably a bit better.
BUT both are so small in dimension and absorption that it is akin to putting a bandaid on a cancer lesion .

Thanks KevWind, I had also suspected the foam was useless as I didn't hear any difference. Shall pile up on the pillows as it does seem to do some absorption to my ears.

So- If you are relegated to the corner ( I can identify)
Then::
Depending on your budget range

The first thing I would is get a floor mic stand and 15 ft. mic cable so you can record further out from the corner

Then I would consider getting or building some 2 ft by 4 ft absorption panels out of either Owens Corning 703 -or- Rock Wool Safe and Sound - Gobo style (free standing)

And also because of being in a corner and up against a wall ,, consider getting a pair of head phones for mixing which you can use with the speakers to check things like stereo field balance and overall mix balance .

Here is my solution for being in a corner
I am obviously not dealing with glass as the near side wall but you get the idea

Hmm, my king size bed is right smack in the middle of the room. Not sure how possible this is.
I do have headphones that i use for mixing, I'm more concerned about recording quality rather than mixing frankly.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions..

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by lppier

It's from half the height, just covering the glass window. It's made of fairly thick material.


For acoustic guitar, i'm using jack in - there's a nice pickup system (with mic) and for my purposes I'm not too concerned.



Thanks KevWind, I had also suspected the foam was useless as I didn't hear any difference. Shall pile up on the pillows as it does seem to do some absorption to my ears.



Hmm, my king size bed is right smack in the middle of the room. Not sure how possible this is.
I do have headphones that i use for mixing, I'm more concerned about recording quality rather than mixing frankly.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions..

Yes the bed especially a king in the middle of the room (while the traditional position) is quite a problem in that in a smaller room it really narrows the useable space
Luckily for me in my bedroom studio situation I was able to move the queen beed closer to the window side and make more room for my desk and system

Ha! just realized the wide angle shot has distorted the panels and stand on the left side of photo to be as wide as they are tall (they are actually 2 ft wide by 4 ft tall )

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by b1j

Question about panels in front vs. in back of the mic: Does it make more sense to put the panels behind you (in front of the mic)?

As a general rule =Yes, no , maybe, sort of,, ha!

It all depends on the actual specifics of the individual situation (which is different for everybody)

When you have the mic that close to a wall you are going to reflections of the signal bouncing off that wall, that will be definitely be picked up mic also
They are going to be mis-timed (out of phase) from the direct signals coming from the mouth or guitar and can range from not a big deal , to creating a phasey/chorusy or slightly muddy distorted effect (sometimes imperceptible other than robbing depth from the sound ) , to possibly comb filtering and or build up--- all depending on the distance difference between the source to the mic, and the source to the wall


Plus having the monitor speakers that close to an untreated wall can also create similar issues of the reflected sound being out of phase with the direct sound making accurate mixing decisions harder

[b1j]

Originally Posted by KevWind

As a general rule =Yes, no , maybe, sort of,, ha!

It all depends on the actual specifics of the individual situation (which is different for everybody)

When you have the mic that close to a wall you are going to reflections of the signal bouncing off that wall, that will be definitely be picked up mic also
They are going to be mis-timed (out of phase) from the direct signals coming from the mouth or guitar and can range from not a big deal , to creating a phasey/chorusy or slightly muddy distorted effect (sometimes imperceptible other than robbing depth from the sound ) , to possibly comb filtering and or build up--- all depending on the distance difference between the source to the mic, and the source to the wall


Plus having the monitor speakers that close to an untreated wall can also create similar issues of the reflected sound being out of phase with the direct sound making accurate mixing decisions harder

Good points. I’ll keep them in mind as I reconfigure my room to integrate my eight new panels.

For one thing, I’ve always wondered if a nice, thick trap would help behind the subwoofer. It’s on the floor under the desk in front of my feet, with a filing cabinet on one side! But to your point, I do think a panel behind the desk might do some good.

I need to clear out some large items and build up from scratch.

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by lppier

I have the curtains covering the windows which does give me an audible reduction in sound, but not completely. I did not measure though.

Curtains will help a tad, but the only way to reduce exterior noise much (without decoupling and building an inner room!) is to add mass to the walls/windows to prevent vibration transmission and/or block off any air channels or "weak spots" into the room. Given the first is a bit impractical, you need to focus on the 2nd. Caulking or adding weather stripping around any air gaps on windows and doors is a good first step; then adding extra panes or otherwise sealing off windows (like I did with my plywood panels) comes next.

I have quite a few pillows lying around, hopefully they do help to dampen the sound. With dynamic mics it seems to be ok. I had tried with my beyerdynamic mc930 sdc lying around , and when I try to belt, there’s a weird tinge of metallic slapback and strange compression. Or at least what sounds like compression to my ears . It might be a property of this mic with vocals but I don’t think so.

No, it's probably reflections within the room. Again, things like pillows or soft surfaces help but aren't ideal--those reflections will still be bouncing around those bare walls without panels designed to absorb sound energy.

How do u reliably test the acoustics? I see YouTubers doing a clap test.

You can use your ears, of course. Best to record, and then listen back so you can hear it more objectively. If you do something and it sounds better, it is better.

Otherwise, you can use software like Room EQ Wizard, which plays tones through your speakers, and you set up a microphone so the program can "hear" what is coming back and analyze what's happening in your room. Best done with very flat omnidirectional mic and quality FRFR (full range flat response) speakers to truly measure the room.

[lppier]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Yes the bed especially a king in the middle of the room (while the traditional position) is quite a problem in that in a smaller room it really narrows the useable space
Luckily for me in my bedroom studio situation is was able to move the queen beed closer to the window side and make more room for my desk and system

Yea... not possible to move the bed in my case sadly. There's a desk right next to it.

[lppier]

Originally Posted by Chipotle

Curtains will help a tad, but the only way to reduce exterior noise much (without decoupling and building an inner room!) is to add mass to the walls/windows to prevent vibration transmission and/or block off any air channels or "weak spots" into the room. Given the first is a bit impractical, you need to focus on the 2nd. Caulking or adding weather stripping around any air gaps on windows and doors is a good first step; then adding extra panes or otherwise sealing off windows (like I did with my plywood panels) comes next.


No, it's probably reflections within the room. Again, things like pillows or soft surfaces help but aren't ideal--those reflections will still be bouncing around those bare walls without panels designed to absorb sound energy.


You can use your ears, of course. Best to record, and then listen back so you can hear it more objectively. If you do something and it sounds better, it is better.

Otherwise, you can use software like Room EQ Wizard, which plays tones through your speakers, and you set up a microphone so the program can "hear" what is coming back and analyze what's happening in your room. Best done with very flat omnidirectional mic and quality FRFR (full range flat response) speakers to truly measure the room.

Room EQ wizard! I remember using this many, many years ago for measuring in a dome project.
Actually, my windows are double-glazed, otherwise the problem would be even worse. I didn't choose the best grade of double glazed windows though 5-7 years back.

[alohachris]

Aloha Ippier,

Not much of a recording space, huh? Especially with the huge bed in the middle.

First, for controlling early room reflections in your tracking area:

As a renter, I had to adapt my home recording to many different spaces & shapes & limitations. I always found a way. I also know guys who recorded albums in their closet studio's! Yes, you CAN mix on headphones (AKG Studio 240's - standard for over 40 years).

What worked for me was to build a 'room within a room" using DIY 4"x2'x4' OC 703, free-standing broadband absorbers surrounding my tracking area - I made 9 panels to start, 8 standing around me, one above where I sit. It didn't matter the shape of the room. I created my own controlled space to record & maximize my mic's & signal chain - plus all the frequencies separated.

The broadband absorbers are similar to those in Kev's pictures of his corner space. What's nice is that the panels are portable & could be stored under your bed if you adapt that.

https://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009...-on-the-cheap/

I used Room EQ Wizard to find a space's sweetspot for tracking & editing location. It also had a printout I could use to graphically find problem reflections, to know where to place treatment.

Controling outside noise through your open window & reflective windows.

Ippier, I used to sell a common (Lowe's - about $ 35/sheet)) construction sound abatement panel - Soundboard Homasote 440. Homasote's main purpose was to control & eliminate sound between floors or apartment walls. A 1/2" 4'x8' composite that is lightweight, easy to cut, & really works. It has an R value that's twice that of wood. Looks like tightly compressed paper.

https://www.homasote.com/products/440-soundbarrier

I also used Homasote 440 to make small boxes for preventing noise bleed from noisy computers or gear. My friends use it to prevent their outdoor compressor noise from bothering their neighbors! It really works.

You could just glue the Soundboard to a 1/4" or 1/2" 4'x8' luan plywood backing board (for stabiity & more sound abatement) & just lean the panels against the window wall while recording.

Homasote should keep most of the outdoor sounds out. And you can stack them when you're through recording & need air. Ha!. Or you can shape them & attach them more premanently to the window area.

I used to record in a large 30'x40' space in a rainforest with floor to ceiling glass all around the room. I just leaned Homasote against the glass all around & it kept all the forest sounds (endless roosters, many screaming amorous pigs, ocean wind gusts, tropical birds & parrots, clanking of the bamboo woods, & constant heavy rain) out of my mixes.

If you have specific questions about how to apply those & other solutions to your space, PM me, OK?

Good Luck, Ippier. Try to rethink your room configs. for more space . Sleep on a movable futon like I did in one studio space. Or get a smaller bed & put the mattress on the floor. Lean it against the wall when not sleeping, Ha!

I wouldn't do that now at 78. But I did many times up until I was about 50. I found out that older girls actually don't like sharing sleeping space in a recording studio. Ha! Who knew? That's when I knew it was time to live alone again. Guitars & Recording First!!!

alohachris