Bridge Pins

[Wade Hampton]

Originally Posted by LFL Steve

It’s a VINTAGE thread. Highly desirable.

Yep. It sounds better and they made threads better in the old days.


Wade Hampton Miller

[Lillis]

Shadowraptor probably has a Froggy Bottom by now.

[Ps346]

Originally Posted by cugir321

There's a reason yamaha uses plastic up to the LL56 top of the line. It saves the sound board over time....pins bead instead of wood getting chewed up.

" ... pins bead ... "?

I have heard some state (e.g., JP Cormier) that Yamaha puts plastic bridge pins on their high-end guitars (like the LL56) because anyone buying such a guitar will doubtless have his or her own preference for the bridge pin material and with thus probably swap them out.

I don't know if this is true or not.

Personally, I have never been able to notice any discernible difference in tone when using different bridge pins.

[Ps346]

Originally Posted by martinedwards

a simple rule of thumb on bridge pins.....

weight.

heavy pins make the bridge heavier therefore it can't vibrate as freely, so the bass end of the tone spectrum is damped.

light pins allow the top to vibrate more freely, so more bass will be apparent.

brass? trebley sound (NOTE the treble isn't louder, there's just less bass to swamp it)

bone? lighter so more bass.

I retract everything I said in the prior post about never noticing a discernible difference when I swapped out bridge pins. 🙂

A recent luthier lost one of my bridge pins when he reglued my saddle. It was a very light bone set. I didn't like the look of the bone set that he gave me, so I recently put in a brass set that I saw lying around – not because I wanted brass, but because they had an inlay that looked nice on my guitar.

I think think this was the reason that the D'addario XS strings sounded so bright and trembly to me (prior post). Anyway, I swapped out the strings for John Pearse (which is what I often use), and the guitar still sounded "edgy." I swapped out the bridge pins, and now everything seems to be back to normal.

So, I agree that it's probably the weight of the bridge pins having the precise effect that he mentions above.

[Eldergreene]

It always intrigues me that some of us hear differences between different pin-material & others don't - I wonder if it's because there are at least 3 factors in play, 1). the pins themselves, 2) the ears of the hearer ( my own high-frequency hearing has dropped a lot over 5 decades ), & 3) the brain's interpretation of what's being perceived, which is inevitably subjective, & may be influenceable by eg expectation of difference/no difference; I'm firmly in the hear-a-difference camp, but perhaps both sides are right?

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Shadowraptor

I am (finally) changing the strings on my Yamaha FG-730. While I have the strings off, I would like to update the bridge pins with something other than plastic. I see many of these on the net, but I am not sure of the correct size or configuration for the Yamaha. I have also heard that the material can make a difference in the sound.

Can anyone help?

Thanks much.

Hi S-raptor
Another vote for Bob Colossi's pins. His site (guitarsaddles.com) talks about what sizes you need, and he may even have the measurement for Yamaha pins posted there.

[EDIT]

I checked and he lists a measurement for newer Yamaha. If it's older, I'll bet he could give you advice by email (he's good about responding).

I'm another who updated pins for cosmetics and durability, never for sonic reasons. I have bone and Buffalo Horn. They are translucent. I've had them on it for about 15 years now.

My amber pins in my Olson bridge…they were a birthday gift from my wife (who had my luthier select and install them for proper fit)

The only pins I've ever heard make a sonic difference are brass or titanium. And the brass ones did not make a good change. I taught fingerstyle for 40 years and over that period we swapped out a couple dozen sets of brass pins (after comparing the difference with the student in real time) for bone or other non-plastic pins.

The Titanium I heard were in a couple Ryans with Titanium. He designs the guitar's response for those pins.

I also prefer (and use) unslotted pins, because they seat better, seat more easily, and seat completely beneath the bridge plate (they don't chew up bridge plates that way).

[jmagill]

It's all about energy transference and how that colors the timbre (tone). Of the three elements in constant contact with the strings (nut, saddle & bridgepins) which has the greatest effect on the instrument's tone?

In my experience, it's the saddle. It's the terminus of the vibrating strings that are exciting the top, so its efficiency in transferring their energy is paramount.

Next would be the nut. Yes, it colors the tone most noticeably on open strings, because when one capos, a metal fret replaces the role of the nut, but as others have mentioned, the nut is still transferring vibrations to the headstock and neck, which affect sustain.

Finally come the bridgepins. I think of them as the guitar's 'jewelry', since I've never noticed much change in the sound of different pins. I prefer unslotted bone with an 'aged' look to them, which Bob Colosi can produce using various dyes, because I think it's a classy touch.

On the guitars I play the most, I usually swap out the bone nut & saddle for harder and denser West African Hard Ivory (legally harvested, with all paperwork) from Bob, although he can't ship ivory out of his home state of Georgia.

On every guitar I've replaced bone with WAHI, it has increased the instrument's presence and definition.
.

[Annie B]

I switched out the plastic pins for bone in my Martin D Jr. and immediately noticed more sustain. Cool, I thought. Gonna switch out the tusq nut and saddle. These changes brought out more overtones, and now this little gal just sings.

[Charlie Bernstein]

My main guitar is an old spruce/mahogany Guild D-35 with a slightly modified set of D'Addario phosphor/bronze twelves. (Or maybe Elixer Nanos?) I gave it bone pins for just a tad more punch (as if it needed it).

It worked well for the wound strings — this bad dog barks — but bone made the unwound B and high E strings ice-pick shrill. I could've just put the plastic pins back on those two, but instead I put on a pair of rosewood pins. They're brighter than plastic would've been, I think, but they're loud enough, and the shrillness of the bone pins is tamed.

I like the sound.

[Hexcore]

My experience has been that replacing a softer material (wood, plastic) with a much harder one -- bone, specifically -- generally makes and audible difference. I use a flatpick, and brightness, attack, and clarity are boosted a bit. Fit is even more important (IMO) and it is common for players to use replacement pins with the incorrect taper for their guitars. It's worth getting this right! Bone works best for me for pins, nut, and saddle. I bought my pins from Colosi, and they are really excellent, and an excellent fit for my Collings.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Annie B

I switched out the plastic pins for bone in my Martin D Jr. and immediately noticed more sustain. Cool, I thought. Gonna switch out the tusq nut and saddle. These changes brought out more overtones, and now this little gal just sings.

Hi Annie…
I have heard this kind of differences when helping others change from plastic to bone (or other materials), and have concluded it was more a matter of the plastic pins being a 'poor' fit and the new pins (bone, horn etc) being properly sized and fitted. Also, deformed ends on slotted pins (from age and wear) not allowing the ball end to seat squarely under the bridge plate.

I have switched all my guitars to spotless pins, and with all I think I've heard improvements (more than with materials). I attribute that to a more securely positioned ball end squarely seated under the bridge plate.

I may be wrong. My Olson came with properly fitted bone, and the buffalo horn made zero difference in tone.

The Recording King and Voyage Air both came with plastic and while the bone pins really improved them in the 'durability' category, both had proper fitted plastic so the bone pins made no difference in tone, sustain, overtones etc. I could detect.

Granted, we are only talking a couple guitars and non-scientific applications.

My perspective is if we improve a bunch of little things to better materials (saddle, nut, bridge pins, slot-less pins) it will certainly 'improve' the guitar…and hopefully some of that is sonic.

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by LFL Steve

It’s a VINTAGE thread. Highly desirable.

Grr. Got me again.

=O[