Bridge Pins

[Shadowraptor]

I am (finally) changing the strings on my Yamaha FG-730. While I have the strings off, I would like to update the bridge pins with something other than plastic. I see many of these on the net, but I am not sure of the correct size or configuration for the Yamaha. I have also heard that the material can make a difference in the sound.

Can anyone help?

Thanks much.

[Strumming Fool]

Check out this web site. They have a sizing guide for bridge pins:

http://www.custominlay.com/default.aspx

Hope this helps...

[Lawn Jockey]

Talk to Bob here.

Read up on his bridge pins, etc.

Good luck.

[valleyguy]

I'll second Bob Colosi's site. I changed pins, though more for esthetics, it didn't give much of a difference in sound, but YMMV.

Changing strings has a much more profound difference in changing the sound, next would be changing the saddle.

[banpreso]

if your guitar comes with the plastic saddle, i would change that to bone along with the bridge pins.

i hope others can comment on the correct sizes.

[martinedwards]

a simple rule of thumb on bridge pins.....

weight.

heavy pins make the bridge heavier therefore it can't vibrate as freely, so the bass end of the tone spectrum is damped.

light pins allow the top to vibrate more freely, so more bass will be apparent.

brass? trebley sound (NOTE the treble isn't louder, there's just less bass to swamp it)

bone? lighter so more bass.

but as the good folks said above, a bone saddle (and nut) are going to help the tone a LOT!!

[hdhoo73]

Originally Posted by valleyguy

I'll second Bob Colosi's site.

+1 on Bob's site...

[Shadowraptor]

Thanks all ...

I think I've got the pin thing down, but what about the saddle? Bob offers various materials and I am wondering which one is 'best'?

I sent an email to Bob, and got an immediate response (thanks Bob). I will have to send him my existing pins (and saddle) as a guide to make replacements. It seems he builds and stocks for higher end guitars at this time. Wonder how long I will be able to stand Yammie Withdrawl before I bring out the drugs :-(

Another reason to get serious about a Gibson Hummingbird? (Arghh ... GAS attack ...)

I saw the M-A-R-T-I-N bridge pins in his Gallery and asked him if he could make these for me using S-H-A-D-O-W. He's doing Martins only at this time.

He has done some beautiful stuff.

Thanks again.

[zombywoof]

In 45 years, I have not heard any appreciable difference in sound when going from one pin material to another.

[AndrewG]

In addition to the good suggestions above I have to say that in over 40 years of playing and owning a number of fine guitars and changing bridge pins the most profound difference I have noted is that some are prettier than others. I have never noticed any change in tone for the worse or better. I know this can be a contentious issue where views are polarised-some claim to hear major differences while others nothing at all.
Personally I'm pretty certain a degree of psycho-acoustics comes into play; what we have read of the tonal 'attributes' of various materials with the most expensive, naturally, acquiring the status of tonal Nirvana, becomes something of a self-fulfilling prophecy because we want it to be.

Other factors also affect our perception; how accurate is our memory of tone for a reference point? Have we used the same strings, de-tuned and re-tuned to pitch which have temporarily regained some brightness as a result?
Comparitive recordings leave me unconvinced; a human is not a machine and cannot replicate his/her approach to playing the same thing, repeatedly, with unerring accuracy.

For the record I replaced the plastic pins/endpin in my Yamaha LL26 with ebony inlaid with turquoise dots; they look nicer than the stock ones.

[ozshadow]

+1 for Bob

[TokyoNeko]

I, for one, haven't noticed dramatic tonal changes from one type of pins to the other. I now change them mainly for aesthetic and durability considerations. The plastic pins get chewed up rather easily, whereas bone pins will last longer.

[2jackedLUNGS]

I just had a Colosi FWI saddle, nut, and pin set shaped and installed. I love the sound, it made a world of difference. Looks great too. Here's a link to some pics.

http://2jackedlungs.shutterfly.com/

[TokyoNeko]

Originally Posted by 2jackedLUNGS

I just had a Colosi FWI saddle, nut, and pin set shaped and installed. I love the sound, it made a world of difference. Looks great too. Here's a link to some pics.

http://2jackedlungs.shutterfly.com/

Saddle I understand, pins to a lesser extent. But does the nut itself really make a noticeable difference in tone?

[bryankimsey]

My experience with pins is:

1) the guitar and the player make a lot of difference. Generally, if you play with a flatpick on a responsive guitar, you'll hear a difference. Certain styles and attacks bring out tones that others don't.

2) At Kaufman Kamp, I've had many customers who wanted bone pins. I installed them. Two or three of those guys came back the next day and wanted to refund/exchange because their guitars were now too bright. They heard a difference and it was negative for them. I substituted a different kind of pin and sent them back out. Some of them liked that pin, but not the bone, but they definitely heard a difference.

3) Many years ago, my mother and I were sitting in a hotel room. She cares very little about guitars and was reading a newspaper. I played my then Martin D-28 "1935 Special" with plastic pins a little, then loosened the strings a little (not all the way) and slipped in some FWI pins I was testing. I re-tuned and started playing. My mother looked up from her paper and said "What did you just do to that guitar?" I replied "Why?" and she said "It suddenly sounds a lot bigger and louder. The notes last longer." Another time, I was fooling with pins on my then Collings Clarence White and my wife, sitting around a little half-wall said "Those sound awful." Me: "Why?" She: "Too ringy. Too much sustain. They're just 'too much'." In both of these examples, neither of these people knew that I was changing pins nor were they really focusing on listening for changes.

4) I've also sent out 3-4 kinds of pins to friends to test. No money involved- try the pins, tell me what you think. When I compared their feedback, there were definititely some consistent trends there.

5) No matter what you pick- pins, nut/saddle, string, picks, glues, whatever- many people will not hear a difference and others will. Some insist that strings are the greatest change a guitar can possibly experience. Ironically enough, I don't hear that much difference in strings (assuming they're all phos bronze, or all 80/20). I mostly FEEL the difference. When I did the big string test for FGM way back when, I had some preferences, but any of the strings I tested were fine, really.

6) Way back in 1981, a repairman suggested that I change the plastic pins on my D-28 for ebony. His reasoning? Sound. Likewise, in 1987, when I changed the Grover Rotomatics for Kluson copies for weight and balance reasons, the repairman's first comment after I played the guitar was "Do you hear a difference in sound?" These ideas did exist Pre-Internet.

Originally Posted by TokyoNeko

But does the nut itself really make a noticeable difference in tone?

Take a bone nut out and replace it with a cardboard one. Report back.

Again... If you have a guitar with heavy tuners, 2 popsicle braces, and big frets (.ie stuff that sucks up vibrations), then the nut material will likely not make any difference. If you have a guitar that sends neck vibrations into the upper bout, you may hear or feel more difference. I'm convinced that we pick up a lot of tactile feedback from a vibrating neck- I suppose everyone's put a tuning fork on a tooth, right? Same idea. The more "alive" I can get that guitar, the more I generally like it. There's much more to this than just sterile sound. If you read the Fretboard Journal talking about Kamaka ukes, you'll find that they like to use deaf people to tap on their tops. Deaf people??!! They FEEL the top bouncing. Same idea here, too.