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  #31  
Old 08-13-2022, 05:11 AM
catndahats catndahats is offline
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Howdy Andy from Texas.

Weather is an amazing, intense thing! Hot/cold/wet/dry doesn't matter. I find it equally amazing how humans adapt to survive.

When I lived in N. California, I spent the first six months freezing while everyone was on the beach in shorts...it took me that long to adjust.

This year our temps are averaging about 10 degrees warmer than the same time last year. Last year was wet and cold by our standards. We have had 55 days over 100f the last 2 months, and zero rain. It's a drought. The lake level across the street is dropping by feet each day as they are sending more water downstream to other communities for crops and water needs. We are on serious water restrictions. It's 80 on our porch at 4am today, it was 112 out in the sun in the car yesterday. When the temps fall below 100 we feel like breaking out our hoodies!

We live outside on our porch year round---hot or cold.
We are weird---wife and I love summer. Shorts, flip flops, t-shirts. We long for this weather. The older we get, the less we tolerate cold weather. We welcome Summer heat, and mourn its' passing. We'd rather sit and sweat on the porch laughing, playing music, eating and drinking than being inside where it is cool.

We are not corporate yes-men living inside the cool corner office pointing and expounding on how others should adapt---we just do. I find it ironic how the state run organizations tell us to turn up our thermostats in the summer and lower them in the winter to save resources, and yet their offices are a cool 72 in the summer and 78 in the winter.

However, winter is our nemesis. Two winters ago, we had a monster winter storm with snow and ice that lasted a couple weeks (I wrote about it here) and wondered how people coped. I caught a lot of flack. But we learned, insulated ourselves and our home better, more firewood, even bought long johns. We are better prepared--now. We changed what we could, and adjusted to what we cannot change.

Others have posted how the heat kills. It does. So does cold, hurricanes, floods, drought, tornados, etc...the weather does not discriminate. I personally think most people do not understand the dilemma unless they are personally experiencing it. I read about it here all the time.

We grew up without air conditioning in our schools, and in my early childhood in our home. Our parents grew up without air conditioning in their homes. My dad used to say they were so poor and did not even know it--so they were happy. My great grandparents did not have electricity, a car, or running water. We survived.

On a road trip from TX to Colorado 3yrs ago, my wife and I were impressed, and talked for hours at 70mph in the comfort of our air conditioned truck how early pioneers were able to survive the trip west, on foot/horse/wagon. How many were born without hospitals and doctors, how many must have died along the way.

Weather, and the human spirit to survive is amazing!





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Originally Posted by Silly Moustache View Post
I have stood in the middle of the volcano in Nisyros, Greece in late summer.
I have climbed Mt. Tiede in Tenerife.
I have driven to Terlingua Texas and Ojinaga in Mexico.
I have driven from Sacramento to Kramer Junction on the 395, ten to Santa fe via the I40 (?)
i have walked through the little stone paths of Thira at midday with a Billingham bag wih two Canon F1ns and lenses from 15 m/m to 300m/m!
i have driven north to south on Crete (no real roads just tracks in a Fiat 500!)

but ....

I've never been so hot as in southern England in July and August! 85 to 100 F with RH from 60 to 23 and back again in 24 hours!
Walking a few hundred yards up to my allotments yesterday afternoon the sun actually hurt my face and arms.

The south of England is now officially declared a drought area.
In France the river Loire has dried up.

This stuff is getting scary.
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  #32  
Old 08-13-2022, 05:28 AM
RJVB RJVB is offline
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The older we get, the less we tolerate cold weather.
I think what happens is that we get less good at tolerating (extreme) changes beyond our comfort zones ... and if you get old enough you do need higher temperature because you're less physically active.
But as I said before, you can always add an extra layer of warm (or even heated) clothing ... there's a limit to how much you can take off

Quote:
I find it ironic how the state run organizations tell us to turn up our thermostats in the summer and lower them in the winter to save resources, and yet their offices are a cool 72 in the summer and 78 in the winter.
78F office temp in winter but 72F in summer? The latter is a good temperature for using your head at work, so how does it make sense to heat much more in winter?

Quote:
how early pioneers were able to survive the trip west, on foot/horse/wagon. How many were born without hospitals and doctors, how many must have died along the way
This has come up before in this thread. It does seem improbable that anyone would wear woollen garments in the kind of temperatures we now have (then again, isn't that what certain nomadic peoples from the Sahara do?). But has anyone checked what temperatures were like back then? If memory serves me right they were definitely a lot lower in Europe.

As to the 2nd bit ... how many kids survived to grow to an adult? If being born outside of a hospital had remained the norm we might not now be dealing with the fallout of the population densities we have!
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  #33  
Old 08-13-2022, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by RJVB View Post
Heat is actually a big reason why I stopped riding and sold my bike. On 30+ Celsius days the tarmac temperature must easily get in the mid 40s, which means you're riding through a hot air stream of about that temperature. ATGATT is just not doable like that - and without it you are at an even bigger risk of dehydration (and thus black-outs, which still happened to me once, at 70kph on Barcelona's beltway).
Glad you're OK... drink lots of water. My pals who ride without ATGATT
are the dehydrated ones with sun burned scalps. I ride with boots,
lined mc jeans, mc jacket, gloves and full face helmet. The wind was
roaring in our ears so loudly that I was shocked when a couple of my
buddys even asked me if I had some extra ear plugs!

-Mike
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  #34  
Old 08-13-2022, 05:31 AM
Murphy Slaw Murphy Slaw is offline
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Originally Posted by catndahats View Post
We grew up without air conditioning in our schools, and in my early childhood in our home. Our parents grew up without air conditioning in their homes. My dad used to say they were so poor and did not even know it--so they were happy. My great grandparents did not have electricity, a car, or running water.

People were smarter back then. They knew it was going to be hot in the summer and cold in the winter.

It didn't surprise them.

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  #35  
Old 08-13-2022, 05:45 AM
catndahats catndahats is offline
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Murphy, I think you are right!
My great-grandparents were from Southern Illinois, farmers. I heard so many stories from my dad about visiting / staying with them when he was a child.

They were grateful to have the opportunity to have a roof over their heads and a horse hair mattress. Dad told how hard it was to even get to his grandparents farm. Bus/train ride, buggy ride down dirt paths. Sleeping outside to stay cool in the summer, his grandmother getting up daily at 4am and building a fire in the stove for warmth and to prepare biscuits, drinking creek water out of his grandpa's felt hat, working and hunting for food. A bath once a week in a tub on the porch.

The farmers had/have it right. They plant with hope for a crop. And they read the nature / weather signs for what to expect. They were smart.

When I was a teacher, I'd ask my elementary students where they thought food came from every year as we started our Science study on plants. Consistently, they said food came from the grocery.


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People were smarter back then. They knew it was going to be hot in the summer and cold in the winter.

It didn't surprise them.

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  #36  
Old 08-13-2022, 05:51 AM
RJVB RJVB is offline
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Glad you're OK... drink lots of water.
This was about 10y ago, btw. That day was the 1st of the trip back home with planned stopovers at interesting locations (as defined by my partner). She was in her car and in a hurry to leave the hotel that morning, while I had apparently eaten something wrong the day before. That, plus the fact that the hotel didn't have a self-service breakfast buffet meant I indeed didn't drink enough, "shed" more than usual, and since I had to follow my partner I also couldn't stop at leisure to cool off and drink. It was a mistake getting on the bike without telling her to impose regular stops or at least keep an eye on me signalling her. I'm glad though that we didn't agree on simply meeting in the evening at the next hotel; now she figured out I was "missing" pretty quickly after my accident.

Re: water: we have a canalised little river running east to west through our village, with a landing/launching place for small boats down the (steep) alley that runs in front of our back gate. I was surprised to see that the water level looks to be at a normal height the other day. People in the region where I live don't have the reflex to go benefit from (on) that water, but I've been considering we could get a canoe and spend part of the hot days floating on a shady stretch (of which there should be plenty).
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  #37  
Old 08-13-2022, 06:06 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is online now
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Originally Posted by RJVB View Post
Heat is actually a big reason why I stopped riding and sold my bike. On 30+ Celsius days the tarmac temperature must easily get in the mid 40s, which means you're riding through a hot air stream of about that temperature. ATGATT is just not doable like that - and without it you are at an even bigger risk of dehydration (and thus black-outs, which still happened to me once, at 70kph on Barcelona's beltway).
I Googled ATTGATT - I guess its a biker thing! learn something every day!
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  #38  
Old 08-13-2022, 06:24 AM
Horsehockey Horsehockey is offline
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As kids growing up in a farming community in the Midwest, our July/August temps were in the mid 90s with high humidity. Kids would make fun of other kids sporting a “farmer tan.” (Lots of white skin at the lake). Those were the kids who learned from their fathers that it was smarter to wear protective clothing than it was to have a cool tan.
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  #39  
Old 08-13-2022, 06:28 AM
Tenzin Tenzin is offline
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Just think of the politicians who, during a blizzard, bring a snowball into Congress, smile and say, “What climate change”?

It is scary.

Don't discount that new medications and new treatments _might_ make the heat more noticeable. (Right after I had tissue and radiation under my eye, I thought I'd have to invest in an air-conditioned space suit. Luckily, that passed and I still can see.

Here's to an early fall!
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Old 08-13-2022, 06:30 AM
catndahats catndahats is offline
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RJVB, agree and disagree---cultural/geographic differences maybe?

*Every living thing has a life cycle. Our metabolism changes/slows as we age. And naked at my age would not be a pretty site, so we avoid it.


*My point is that we are often told/directed to do one thing that the entity doing the telling is not willing to do themselves. Some corporate fat cat sitting in the corner office does not understand how living outside the parameters they encourage is not healthy since they don't have to experience it themselves. (short version).

*No personal experience with Europe's historical weather patterns. However, often the current reports are often grossly exaggerated of "coldest" or "hottest" temps in recorded history. If either were 100% true, we would not be here today.


*2nd bit: Double edge sword at work. People were physically smaller by a lot two centuries ago, and shorter lifespan. Better diets, health care, plant/animal technologies (for lack of a better word) etc...have made longer and more productive lifespans the norm for animals/humans and plants. Families were historically larger also, but you are right in that there were fewer of them. They were agrarian and needed laborers. The population is growing and living longer, no surprise. But the ability to feed them is also growing, and family size is shrinking. How do you reconcile population growth? Who lives, reproduces, who dies? I'm glad I don't make those decisions.



We have a sign painted on our porch, not that it changes anything. I am not French, but my wife is from Louisiana / and Cajun French is still spoken in their homes....we say, "Laissez les bons temps rouler"

We just do the best we can, and let the good times roll.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RJVB View Post
I think what happens is that we get less good at tolerating (extreme) changes beyond our comfort zones ... and if you get old enough you do need higher temperature because you're less physically active.
But as I said before, you can always add an extra layer of warm (or even heated) clothing ... there's a limit to how much you can take off

My point is that we are often told/directed to do one thing that the entity doing the telling is not willing to do themselves. Some corporate fat cat sitting in the corner office does not understand how living outside the parameters they encourage is not healthy since they don't have to experience it themselves. (short version).


78F office temp in winter but 72F in summer? The latter is a good temperature for using your head at work, so how does it make sense to heat much more in winter?

No personal history experience with Europe's historical weather patterns. However, often the current reports are often grossly exaggerated of "coldest" or "hottest" temps in recorded history. If either were 100% true, we would not be here today.

This has come up before in this thread. It does seem improbable that anyone would wear woollen garments in the kind of temperatures we now have (then again, isn't that what certain nomadic peoples from the Sahara do?). But has anyone checked what temperatures were like back then? If memory serves me right they were definitely a lot lower in Europe.

2nd bit: Double edge sword at work. People were physically smaller by a lot two centuries ago, and shorter lifespan. Better diets, health care, plant/animal technologies (for lack of a better word) etc...have made longer and more productive lifespans the norm for animals/humans and plants. Families were historically larger also, but you are right in that there were fewer of them. They were agrarian and needed laborers. The population is growing and living longer, no surprise. But the ability to feed them is also growing, and family size is shrinking. At the same rate, I doubt it. How do you reconcile population growth? Who lives, reproduces, who dies? I'm glad I don't make those decisions.

As to the 2nd bit ... how many kids survived to grow to an adult? If being born outside of a hospital had remained the norm we might not now be dealing with the fallout of the population densities we have!

Last edited by catndahats; 08-13-2022 at 06:59 AM.
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  #41  
Old 08-13-2022, 06:31 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is online now
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Slightly off topic but it is NOT a good time to do long journeys.

Car accidents are at an all time high here, probably because people are hot and tired.

I was somewhat disturbed to learn yesterday that my daughter-in-law was driving her mother, father and sister from the south coast to Newcastle on-Tyne. (in an elderly Mini) According to google maps that's a journey of about 7 hours -on a good day (there are no longer any good days on British roads, especially where we live - it can take me 15-20 minutes to get into the queue to get on to the gridlocked main east west road, and the local Sainsburys (about two miles). The ride home takes longer!

My daughter-in-law is someone I respect enormously!
She was crippled in a car crash many years ago which shortened her spine by about 4-5 inches and crushed her hip and her legs which are now almost all metal (I've seen the external bolts!

In the midst of many hip and leg issues and constant severe pain she is also in the middle of the menopause.

But, apart from her using a stick you would never know. She is a real cockney sparrow; bright, funny, perky and smart! She runs her own online business and makes my stepson happier than I've ever known him.

She got there safely.

But then, she drinks Guinness!
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  #42  
Old 08-13-2022, 07:52 AM
imwjl imwjl is offline
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Originally Posted by Silly Moustache View Post
Slightly off topic but it is NOT a good time to do long journeys.

Car accidents are at an all time high here, probably because people are hot and tired.

I was somewhat disturbed to learn yesterday that my daughter-in-law was driving her mother, father and sister from the south coast to Newcastle on-Tyne. (in an elderly Mini) According to google maps that's a journey of about 7 hours -on a good day (there are no longer any good days on British roads, especially where we live - it can take me 15-20 minutes to get into the queue to get on to the gridlocked main east west road, and the local Sainsburys (about two miles). The ride home takes longer!

My daughter-in-law is someone I respect enormously!
She was crippled in a car crash many years ago which shortened her spine by about 4-5 inches and crushed her hip and her legs which are now almost all metal (I've seen the external bolts!

In the midst of many hip and leg issues and constant severe pain she is also in the middle of the menopause.

But, apart from her using a stick you would never know. She is a real cockney sparrow; bright, funny, perky and smart! She runs her own online business and makes my stepson happier than I've ever known him.

She got there safely.

But then, she drinks Guinness!
More auto accidents has been a lots of places trend for a little while now. I find the ideas and the solutions interesting. Some are effective but it seems not so for those who go with bad choices.

For some other matters discussed here and time I think of the familiarity heuristic and my starting a re-read of the great book Factfulness. The book or at least Hans Rosling's ideas might interest many here.

It being August, my area has a lot of warm and hot days ahead but the way things cooled a bit after two bits of rain this week reminded me the seasonal changes will be some relief.

Again, good luck handling these matters. I thought about all this when I did not want to but forced my daily exercise before yesterday was over.

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  #43  
Old 08-13-2022, 08:17 AM
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It sure is obvious that there is a large number of people that can't afford to get their cars air conditioning repaired. We are in a continuing heat wave and have been in an extreme drought for well over a month now. I've never experienced this before. The lawn mowing people haven't showed up in over two weeks now. There isn't anything to mow. It's all brown. The earth here has turned to dust. And in this area, it's the best most fertile land in the world. I'm starting to question what it'll take to come back from this.
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  #44  
Old 08-13-2022, 10:55 AM
RJVB RJVB is offline
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Originally Posted by Silly Moustache View Post
I Googled ATTGATT - I guess its a biker thing!
It is, but it could (and probably should) be a thing for any activity where protective gear is required.


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Originally Posted by catndahats View Post
People were physically smaller by a lot two centuries ago,
On average, yes. Coincidentally this is a good way to adapt to hot climates; as mass grows faster than skin surface your heat-exchange area decreases proportionally. Yes, there are anomalies in this, like elephants.

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It sure is obvious that there is a large number of people that can't afford to get their cars air conditioning repaired.this.
Count me in. Or rather, I could probably afford to have the thing repaired and since no one accepts to do that I might even try to do it myself if I had the necessary equipment. I refuse to pay some 1200€ to swap out the entire compressor + gearing/clutch mechanism (which is most like the bit that's broken). Of course I am beginning to question my "I hardly use it anyway" justification. Maybe buy a few lottery tickets when the jackpot is high...
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  #45  
Old 08-13-2022, 11:12 AM
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But then, she drinks Guinness!
Yum, Guinness!

I live in an area that goes from -25C (-13F) in the winter to 40C (104F)in summer. So the extreme temperature swing is something we just get used to. Luckily there is a lot of water source where we live, so the drought experienced by our friends in the SW USA doesn't happen here, although wildfires are devastating. Thousands of miles of forests provide the fuel.
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