Revisiting Cryptocurrencies

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

Ironic thing about technology - it all creates a huge swath of waste. Due to obsolescence, we end up switching phones, computers, tablets, TVs, and even cars as they go obsolete yet still work just fine. Where does all that old stuff go?

I remember when I was working full time and some of my engineering co-workers were really on the "green" bandwagon, which amounted most often to criticizing everybody else. Yet, they were often the ones with the latest phone or computer, ditching the old stuff as fast as something new came along and never giving a thought to where that stuff ended up.

The technology tax write off life was three years back then, so every three years, the companies I worked for would get us all new computers while scrapping the old ones.

So I doubt that electricity usage is of any importance to the Bitcoin crowd, yet I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of those involved are espousing the "green" bandwagon ideals.

Clearly, not all folks are like that (in fact I suspect most aren't), which is why I used the word "some". But the co-workers who were, were quite vocal in their criticisms of the rest of us for real or imagined infractions of the ideals they espoused.

The irony of it all.

Tony

My apologies if I don't your point here. For the topic here, I understand there's much use of electricity. I'm aware of the negative externalities associated with a lot of things we do, and also how some people are not sincere about it.

It's very possible to use much technology and still reduce your impact on the planet. Where I work technology has been a big part of that and it defies stereotypes. I work for very religious and conservative people who power an enterprise with renewables and offer customers free car charging from an off grid system.

Replacing more conventional compute with 200+ and growing Apple devices has also done a lot of good. We've achieved the c suite office being 10% to 100% empty some days. Our pricing and logistics staff mostly work from home now.

We're hardly alone with how we are doing business.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by imwjl

My apologies if I don't your point here. For the topic here, I understand there's much use of electricity. I'm aware of the negative externalities associated with a lot of things we do, and also how some people are not sincere about it.

It's very possible to use much technology and still reduce your impact on the planet. Where I work technology has been a big part of that and it defies stereotypes. I work for very religious and conservative people who power an enterprise with renewables and offer customers free car charging from an off grid system.

Replacing more conventional compute with 200+ and growing Apple devices has also done a lot of good. We've achieved the c suite office being 10% to 100% empty some days. Our pricing and logistics staff mostly work from home now.

We're hardly alone with how we are doing business.

Interesting points and I agree that there are ways to mitigate (at least to some degree) the impact of technology on the planet.

Here in the Twin Cities, an entire guitar store (Twin Town Guitars) is powered by solar panels, proving that this can be done. One would expect a guitar store to use quite a bit of electricity (maybe not as much as a room full of computers going 24/7 as in a cloud server farm), but still a lot of guitar amplifiers, pedals, lights, etc.

Considering that Twin Town has been doing this for years now, I am somewhat surprised that more businesses are not following suit around here.

I attended an outdoor concert some years ago and the equipment was completely solar powered by a large but portable solar panel arrangement. The performer lives in a rural area of northern Minnesota and said that his home and studio are also completely solar powered.

We can also make our computers last much longer by installing Linux on those older PCs as newer versions of Windows demand ever newer hardware, keeping them current in their old age. I removed Windows 10 completely from my laptop and installed Ubuntu 22.04 LTS after testing it in a VM for a while. I find that my battery lasts longer because there are finer adjustments for power usage. Fewer charge cycles means longer battery life.

For me, it was a good move because I have been deep into the internals of Linux for so long in the embedded world. I am much more familiar with Linux than I am with Windows. The issue for others would be replacing their proprietary software with Open Source. In many cases, it can be done, but for those steeped in Windows, it would be an adjustment that would require some effort. Even in the Windows environment, any applications I used were Open Source with the exception of Transcribe! for learning music by ear. Of course, the Open Source Sonic Visualizer does that equally well, so that is what I use now.

I can't comment on the Apple world and their power usage because I am not a part of it. Everybody I know who does use their products seems quite happy with their choice and I certainly respect that.

Kudos to you and your workplace for making the effort to use technology in an efficient manner. There is proof that it can be done. The question is whether such efforts will become mainstream rather than isolated instances.

Tony

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

Interesting points and I agree that there are ways to mitigate (at least to some degree) the impact of technology on the planet.

Here in the Twin Cities, an entire guitar store (Twin Town Guitars) is powered by solar panels, proving that this can be done. One would expect a guitar store to use quite a bit of electricity (maybe not as much as a room full of computers going 24/7 as in a cloud server farm), but still a lot of guitar amplifiers, pedals, lights, etc.

Considering that Twin Town has been doing this for years now, I am somewhat surprised that more businesses are not following suit around here.

I attended an outdoor concert some years ago and the equipment was completely solar powered by a large but portable solar panel arrangement. The performer lives in a rural area of northern Minnesota and said that his home and studio are also completely solar powered.

We can also make our computers last much longer by installing Linux on those older PCs as newer versions of Windows demand ever newer hardware, keeping them current in their old age. I removed Windows 10 completely from my laptop and installed Ubuntu 22.04 LTS after testing it in a VM for a while. I find that my battery lasts longer because there are finer adjustments for power usage. Fewer charge cycles means longer battery life.

For me, it was a good move because I have been deep into the internals of Linux for so long in the embedded world. I am much more familiar with Linux than I am with Windows. The issue for others would be replacing their proprietary software with Open Source. In many cases, it can be done, but for those steeped in Windows, it would be an adjustment that would require some effort. Even in the Windows environment, any applications I used were Open Source with the exception of Transcribe! for learning music by ear. Of course, the Open Source Sonic Visualizer does that equally well, so that is what I use now.

I can't comment on the Apple world and their power usage because I am not a part of it. Everybody I know who does use their products seems quite happy with their choice and I certainly respect that.

Kudos to you and your workplace for making the effort to use technology in an efficient manner. There is proof that it can be done. The question is whether such efforts will become mainstream rather than isolated instances.

Tony

It may be that a business needs a far longer view than many have to pursue the best overall plans. Some knock my employers in ways I feel are horribly tribal or parochial behavior which is sad. I don't see their being very religious and politically conservative as incompatible with their views on sustainability and employee culture. If you take away all sorts of labels and stereotypes, they're just being respectful and considerate.

The way we had to wait for our annual electronics and toxic stuff recycling this year got me the impression a lot of businesses are doing what is right.

It might be needing to show and prove success to get more people and businesses on board with sagacious operations. I know it's not fast. My municipality and the one next door are decades and generations into good planning efforts but now it draws good firms and people.

I do think it (smart operations) has a same speculation aspect as the bitcoin we're discussing. In a lot of successful municipalities and regions I see there was speculation and some risk on good planning and it's mostly paid off.

Not disguising it here.... Where I work the "green" thing started with a long gone marketing person's idea. The company logo has been green. What occurred is the president looked at it seriously and decided it made business sense. We have leadership who take an unconventional view overall and for sure relative to stereotypes applied to them.

[The Watchman]

Regarding the OP's post, there is a column in today's (May 19, 2022) along the same lines, regarding the failure of crypto to take hold. It seems to me that the people who are promoting it are just high tech pyramid schemers.

[Mr. Jelly]

Originally Posted by The Watchman

Regarding the OP's post, there is a column in today's (May 19, 2022) along the same lines, regarding the failure of crypto to take hold. It seems to me that the people who are promoting it are just high tech pyramid schemers.

It feels like these type of things breed success because of success. And nothing is always successful.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by imwjl

It may be that a business needs a far longer view than many have to pursue the best overall plans. Some knock my employers in ways I feel are horribly tribal or parochial behavior which is sad. I don't see their being very religious and politically conservative as incompatible with their views on sustainability and employee culture. If you take away all sorts of labels and stereotypes, they're just being respectful and considerate.

The way we had to wait for our annual electronics and toxic stuff recycling this year got me the impression a lot of businesses are doing what is right.

It might be needing to show and prove success to get more people and businesses on board with sagacious operations. I know it's not fast. My municipality and the one next door are decades and generations into good planning efforts but now it draws good firms and people.

I do think it (smart operations) has a same speculation aspect as the bitcoin we're discussing. In a lot of successful municipalities and regions I see there was speculation and some risk on good planning and it's mostly paid off.

Not disguising it here.... Where I work the "green" thing started with a long gone marketing person's idea. The company logo has been green. What occurred is the president looked at it seriously and decided it made business sense. We have leadership who take an unconventional view overall and for sure relative to stereotypes applied to them.

It wouldn't surprise me that Twin Town, being among the first around here, took a risk in switching to solar power. However, when that was accomplished and proven successful, the risk is much lower for those considering doing similar.

It is strange to treat people badly due to their beliefs, personal preferences, or skin color. What matters is what people do, how they treat each other, essentially their character. From what you have said your employers have that, and should therefore be treated with respect.

Tony

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

It wouldn't surprise me that Twin Town, being among the first around here, took a risk in switching to solar power. However, when that was accomplished and proven successful, the risk is much lower for those considering doing similar.

It is strange to treat people badly due to their beliefs, personal preferences, or skin color. What matters is what people do, how they treat each other, essentially their character. From what you have said your employers have that, and should therefore be treated with respect.

Tony

Yes, a very strange realm where at the core I believe it is hard to be aware of cognitive biases, and our species likes to belong so we see lots of associations go on that don't make a lot of sense.

I feel lucky that I ended up in work that is technical and requires dealing with the data you have whether or not I like it. It helped me mature beyond being extremely biased in some areas.

The latest Harry Shearer podcast had a funny bitcoin part about 1/2 way through.

I don't know that twin cities firm but you point out that we're lucky to have some risk takers on things that just might be a better mouse trap.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by imwjl

Yes, a very strange realm where at the core I believe it is hard to be aware of cognitive biases, and our species likes to belong so we see lots of associations go on that don't make a lot of sense.

I feel lucky that I ended up in work that is technical and requires dealing with the data you have whether or not I like it. It helped me mature beyond being extremely biased in some areas.

The latest Harry Shearer podcast had a funny bitcoin part about 1/2 way through.

I don't know that twin cities firm but you point out that we're lucky to have some risk takers on things that just might be a better mouse trap.

I have never been interested in siding with one group and then painting those not in that group as the bad guys/idiots/etc. Join a group and then spend loads of energy explaining to anyone who will listen why the other group essentially shouldn't exist. Problems don't get solved that way. From the smallest of situations on up, we see over and over again that those who succeed at whatever the current effort is, are those who work together to achieve it. Division solves nothing as far as I can tell.

With regard to career...

I feel very fortunate to have ended up in a career where many days seemed more like being in a computer club (if you remember those) where we would get together and build cool computer stuff, write the firmware for the device and get the stuff working.

It never failed to amuse me how a group of adults could stand around a newly completed project and get all excited to see some LEDs blinking as the board came up.

The term "engineer" is tossed around rather freely these days so that most anybody with even a remote connection to doing something with computers can be an "engineer". However, to me, "engineer" was somebody who actually created something at the hardware level. We used scopes and logic analyzers, could read schematics, and when we wrote code, it typically went on "bare metal" as we brought up a new board. It was the fun stuff. My work went from that level to porting whatever OS (RTOS, VxWorks, Linux, etc.) to the hardware and then writing drivers for various peripheral components.

The programmers came along later when all that (to me) fun stuff was done, and wrote application code to run in whatever OS environment we provided on that hardware.

Of course, there are many types of engineers, so all I am describing is a very small slice of technology work that I was involved in. I just feel that I won the lottery as far as careers go because it really was fun rather than a grind and it was the managers who played politics while we played engineer in the lab. To top it all off, I was able to retire early and move on to other things. I couldn't have asked for more.

Tony

[raysachs]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

The term "engineer" is tossed around rather freely these days so that most anybody with even a remote connection to doing something with computers can be an "engineer". However, to me, "engineer" was somebody who actually created something at the hardware level. We used scopes and logic analyzers, could read schematics, and when we wrote code, it typically went on "bare metal" as we brought up a new board. It was the fun stuff. My work went from that level to porting whatever OS (RTOS, VxWorks, Linux, etc.) to the hardware and then writing drivers for various peripheral components.

So I guess you're not terribly impressed with Sweetwater's "sales engineers"? I haven't checked lately, but I don't recall being able to pay for the latest musical gear with bitcoin...

-Ray

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by raysachs

So I guess you're not terribly impressed with Sweetwater's "sales engineers"? I haven't checked lately, but I don't recall being able to pay for the latest musical gear with bitcoin...

-Ray

I realize that was a "tongue in cheek" comment, but really, I have thought about that. I guess I don't know what "engineer" is anymore. There was a time when the stereotype "engineer" was the guy with a college degree and a lab coat, conjuring up new designs. What I described in my previous post was that guy (or woman - many women are highly skilled engineers), but without the lab coat except when there was an ESD requirement to wear those jackets in the lab.

What is the difference between a "sales engineer" and a "sales person"? Qualifications requiring a minimum 4 year degree? Other??

Anyway, thinking about it, it is certainly worth a chuckle?

Tony

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

I realize that was a "tongue in cheek" comment, but really, I have thought about that. I guess I don't know what "engineer" is anymore. There was a time when the stereotype "engineer" was the guy with a college degree and a lab coat, conjuring up new designs. What I described in my previous post was that guy (or woman - many women are highly skilled engineers), but without the lab coat except when there was an ESD requirement to wear those jackets in the lab.

What is the difference between a "sales engineer" and a "sales person"? Qualifications requiring a minimum 4 year degree? Other??

Anyway, thinking about it, it is certainly worth a chuckle?

Tony

I know this isn't the point at all, but there is a legit job out there called a "Sales Engineer", we have a ton at my company. They build demos of custom software configurations for clients during the sales process so big accounts can see how our software could work for them. Really important work for us.

But they're actually...engineers. I guess that's where the term comes from, and others have borrowed and...altered it a bit.

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

I know this isn't the point at all, but there is a legit job out there called a "Sales Engineer", we have a ton at my company. They build demos of custom software configurations for clients during the sales process so big accounts can see how our software could work for them. Really important work for us.

But they're actually...engineers. I guess that's where the term comes from, and others have borrowed and...altered it a bit.

I spent the majority of my career as one of these ‘Sales Engineers’. The title was different, depending on the company, but fundamentally my job was exactly as you describe it, Dirk. I wrote lots of code, did lots of configuration and customization (known as ‘extreme configuration’ in some circumstances ), and did countless demos, Proofs Of Concept, and post-purchase implementations over the years.

I sometimes wondered if I deserved the title ‘Engineer’, and came to the conclusion that it didn’t much matter. The customer, or prospect, certainly didn’t care - as long as I (and my colleagues) could create and demonstrate a solution that addressed, and hopefully exceeded, their requirements.

My last title was ‘Senior Solution Consultant’ which was simultaneously apropos, and benign.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by David Eastwood

I spent the majority of my career as one of these ‘Sales Engineers’. The title was different, depending on the company, but fundamentally my job was exactly as you describe it, Dirk. I wrote lots of code, did lots of configuration and customization (known as ‘extreme configuration’ in some circumstances ), and did countless demos, Proofs Of Concept, and post-purchase implementations over the years.

I sometimes wondered if I deserved the title ‘Engineer’, and came to the conclusion that it didn’t much matter. The customer, or prospect, certainly didn’t care - as long as I (and my colleagues) could create and demonstrate a solution that addressed, and hopefully exceeded, their requirements.

My last title was ‘Senior Solution Consultant’ which was simultaneously apropos, and benign.

To my original point, I don't know what "engineer" refers to anymore because there are so many, many positions that use the term. Traditionally, "engineer" required at least a 4 year degree in a major that relied heavily on math and applied design concepts for the particular field of study.

That is the "engineer" that my career was. I don't know anything about all the various engineer titles that have come into being in more recent years. So I am not passing judgement on whether a given engineer title is valid, but instead simply saying what "engineer" meant to me as I have known it throughout my career and that of other people I knew as engineers.

As an example, one engineer in our condo association designed flow and drainage systems for farms. Other engineers can be civil engineers, HVAC design engineers and such. That is the type of engineer outside the computer technology field that I know of. Of course, the Aerospace industry has its share of engineers who design aircraft wings, rockets, and such. Then, there is the automotive industry with engineers designing all aspects of new cars, the engine, computer systems, body design, frame, etc. This is certainly not an exhaustive list, but one can easily see a common thread between all of these types of engineers.

Typically on the projects I was involved in, we had hardware engineers, software engineers, and mechanical engineers. There was overlap among the areas covered by hardware and software engineers as I mentioned in previous posts. Mechanical engineers design the cabinets and housing that the equipment goes in and are concerned with air flow, ambient temperatures, noise levels, etc. Again, the common thread here is very similar to the other types of engineers I mentioned in this post. Then, toward the end of the project, we had test engineers. These people designed means for testing the product which often involved building jigs, various test chambers, as well as the test processes. The folks who created the documentation for the product were not viewed as engineers. There were sales engineers, but all those I knew personally had engineering degrees and prior experience doing that work before moving into sales. So they understand on a firsthand basis, the product from an engineering perspective.

Hopefully, one can see how the term "engineer" as it seems to be so broadly applied today can be confusing to those who were steeped in more traditional usage.

Tony

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

Hopefully, one can see how the term "engineer" as it seems to be so broadly applied today can be confusing to those who were steeped in more traditional usage.

I understand. I remember the disconnect I felt after first hearing the title ‘software engineer’, but that was probably well over 30 years ago.

Holy thread drift, Batman

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by David Eastwood

I understand. I remember the disconnect I felt after first hearing the title ‘software engineer’, but that was probably well over 30 years ago.

Holy thread drift, Batman

The term "software engineer" is applied to a broad scope of positions now and yes, it is confusing. In an earlier post, I said:

The term "engineer" is tossed around rather freely these days so that most anybody with even a remote connection to doing something with computers can be an "engineer". However, to me, "engineer" was somebody who actually created something at the hardware level. We used scopes and logic analyzers, could read schematics, and when we wrote code, it typically went on "bare metal" as we brought up a new board. It was the fun stuff. My work went from that level to porting whatever OS (RTOS, VxWorks, Linux, etc.) to the hardware and then writing drivers for various peripheral components.

The programmers came along later when all that (to me) fun stuff was done, and wrote application code to run in whatever OS environment we provided on that hardware.

If you consider how I described a software engineer here, it falls right in line with how I described engineering as I know it across a number of disciplines. In that description, software and hardware engineers work very closely on the design of the product hardware to insure that the hardware can adequately support what is needed to put an operating system on that hardware, be testable for the diagnostic guy, be testable on the manufacturing line, etc. While bringing up a new board, a software engineer tests his or her code with a logic analyzer monitoring the bus. The software engineer in this capacity has to be well versed in the hardware area too. The software has very similar education to that of the hardware engineer - until recently.

Talking to recent graduates of a software engineering degree program, they now apparently do not delve into the hardware level and the internals of operating systems, drivers, and such. I have been told that they now are pretty high level in their education. That is one reason that I have not had trouble getting work in retirement as a contract engineer. They still need software engineers who can work alongside the hardware engineer and understand what is going on.

However, if you consider that a "software engineer" can now be the title of a web designer, it does become confusing, as but one example.

You said: Holy thread drift, Batman

Yes that is true. What were we talking about again?

Hopefully, this post is enough to clarify things and we can get back to the original thread, though typical conversations drift all over and wind their way back. A thread is just such a conversation.

Tony