Fingerstyle from Zero?

[PeasantDaughter]

Originally Posted by JonPR

This is why I like Mark Hanson's books - such as this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Contemporar...dp/0936799323/ - because he starts with complete patterns. Obviously you begin slow, but it's about getting the thumb and fingers in order, used to their places and positions in time.

That was how I taught myself, listening to records way back in the 1960s, before there were any books on it. I'd forgotten that when I started trying to teach students, and they couldn't get past the thumbstrokes - every time they added a finger, the thumb rhythm was disturbed. Then I remembered how I'd taught myself: whole patterns, starting real slow (from half-speed tape recordings). It worked for me, I mastered it fairly quickly.

Why would anyone not teach complete patterns?

Am always gobsmacked on documentaries upon hearing how people just learned by listening to records. I guess things shone brighter back then without this avalanche of media to sift through. I can see how inspiring that would be.

[PeasantDaughter]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

No specific pieces you would like to learn? Ultimately it's about playing guitar pieces and the enjoyment of doing so. For me doing that has 98% consisted of learning classical pieces by music scores and by ear various "fingerstyle" pieces. If you really know zero regarding playing guitar then do learn the basics of chords and their shapes and learn right hand picking patterns and apply that to actual pieces as soon as possible which helps doing the former as well as training ones ears to hear and muscle memory.

As far as guitar method books go ones that do little by little of the basics of "theory" and the physical mechanics of playing and right along put in the book what you just read about into some little guitar pieces
you can play are effective. Ditto for online internet websites doing that (plus you have visuals and audio).

Nope. I know myself and what I want and how I learn. Perfectly happy with phrases vs. a whole song. Songs can come later. Different strokes for different folks.

Also, aside from not needing to feel the accomplishment of a specific song under my belt, I am doing all you are advising.

[PeasantDaughter]

Originally Posted by erhino41

Once you learn the most common patterns you'll be able to readily adapt them and use them for any song you learn and build from there.

I think learning a good foundational base of patterns and then learning how to adapt them to play the harmonies you want is the way to go.

I agree. Exactly!

[PeasantDaughter]

Originally Posted by EZYPIKINS

In the beginning, concentrate on the bass notes.

Learn to play the 1st and 5th with a smooth, constant timing.

Provided you are fingering the chord correctly. Any other string you pluck within the chord will sound correct.

So let your fingers move how it feels right to you.

At this point, the focus should be to just getting the coordination of moving all your fingers at different times. And IN time.

The specific order of which string to pluck at which time, will come in time.

So if you play say a G chord. Alternate your thumb on the 6 & 5 strings, in half time.

Let the rest of your fingers. Like tapping on a table, in tempo to the song. Dance on the 4,3,2,&1 strings at random. In double time.

For a C chord, bass notes on the 5 & 4 strings. You can also add your little finger to finish out the chord with the G note on 6 string 3rd fret.

Let your fingers play. If you have any musical ability at all. You will begin to hear patterns that make sense to you.

Key is, learn to play like you. You may surprise yourself.

Once you kinda get the hang of it. You will begin to follow more specific instruction, with a bit more understanding.

Does a mama bird give extreme tutorials to their baby bird on how to fly?

No, she shows them, this is how your wings flap. And kicks them out of the nest.

They either learn really quick, or crash and burn.

Fingerstyle is not for everybody. But the sooner you get used to moving a certain way. The sooner you will be comfortable with it.

I appreciate the care and time you took to express the above.

[PeasantDaughter]

Originally Posted by Brent Hutto

I know a lot of people strongly prefer recorded lesson content over working with a teacher but as a almost brand-new beginner you would (in my opinion) get some valuable feedback from at least a small number of private lessons. There are plenty of excellent teachers around who do Zoom/Facetime/Skype based remote lessons.

The cost isn't trivial but having someone who knows what your goals are and who can actually watch and listen to you play then offer specific feedback, that's irreplaceable. Especially the closer to a total beginner the more that's true. Again, just in my opinion.

And I'm talking about an hour lesson once a week for a year or anything like that. I'm talking about a series of maybe half a dozen sessions over a period of a couple months or so to get you started on the right track.

I've taken private lessons before with other instruments and there is this nasty disease I call "narcissistic pedagogy" floating around out there, and I can't afford to sustain the search for a teacher that fits.

But I totally agree that a block of feedback and sage advice would be invaluable. I will try in the future if finances allow.

[tbirdman]

Originally Posted by JonPR

This is why I like Mark Hanson's books - such as this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Contemporar...dp/0936799323/ - because he starts with complete patterns. Obviously you begin slow, but it's about getting the thumb and fingers in order, used to their places and positions in time.

That was how I taught myself, listening to records way back in the 1960s, before there were any books on it. I'd forgotten that when I started trying to teach students, and they couldn't get past the thumbstrokes - every time they added a finger, the thumb rhythm was disturbed. Then I remembered how I'd taught myself: whole patterns, starting real slow (from half-speed tape recordings). It worked for me, I mastered it fairly quickly.

Why not take lessons directly from Mark Hanson or Muriel Anderson who was the first female to win the National fingerpicking competition. Both are $100/hr.

I actually took a local community college course which used the Mark Hanson book. I really learned by using a app with back tracks and playing real slow like 40 bpm, then speeding it up as I got the slower speed down. I got to the point where I played most of my songs using the triple bass pinch pattern.

However the song Freight Train in the book was my kryptonite. Just couldn't master using the pinky to play the melody notes because of misplacement because of lack of pinky control or because I have small hands muting other strings with the other fingers when I attempted to use the pinky i.e. fingering the G7 chord where your fingers are pretty spread out and then using your pinky on the high E string.

Finally went back 2 weeks ago, and was determined to master it. Started off just focusing on clean finger sounds on the parts that gave me trouble. I got it to where I can play it slow fairly well. I will keep at that speed and slowly increase it. I guess it was the development of the pinky in my playing that allowed to come back and tackle this song again.

[PeasantDaughter]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

When learning fingerstyle, there are all manner of scattered youtube videos, all manner of books and DVDs to choose from.

My general recommendation is to look for a comprehensive course of whatever format that provides not just the mechanics, but an understanding of what you are doing and why, as well as h0ow to directly apply it to playing music on the guitar.

My recommendation of Adam Rafferty's course is a good example of such a course. Obviously it isn't the only game in town, but is simply a good example of what I am talking about. These days, there is little need for the scatter approach as opposed to building a complete, solid foundation that doesn't waste time having to backtrack because later on, you realize that you hit a wall due to something you missed early on.

Mark Hanson was recommended here and, across his books and DVDs you can get excellent coverage. Toby Walker is another, as is Steve Krenz.

Mark Hanson: https://markhansonguitar.com/shop/

His youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/MarkHansonGuitar


Toby Walker: https://www.tobywalkerslessons.com/
His youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/tobywalker123

Steve Krenz:
His courses: https://gx169.infusionsoft.app/app/s...?categoryId=26

His youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/GuitarGathering

A number of folks here have recommended JustinGuitar:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WB8...l=JustinGuitar

or his channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBN...iEVLxO8w0p2sfQ

Here is one more: Six String Fingerpicking:

His channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/SixStringFingerpicking

His site: https://sixstringfingerpicking.com/

He goes from absolute beginner to a very high level of playing via his courses and he teaches a bunch of tunes you can choose from as well. All is very reasonably priced and the teaching is very clear and step by step.

There are many others, but if you look at all of these, you will see that they all build a solid foundation that includes, but is not limited to, just the mechanics of fingerstyle. Whatever materials you decide to work with, my recommendation is to look for building a comprehensive foundation rather than a scattered approach with a book here, a DVD there, and maybe a youtube video or two.

Watch the various samples of these teachers provided on youtube or on their respective sites and choose whichever teaching style fits your particular learning style and go to that site for the course.

Tony

I agree. The scattershot method is overwhelming and guaranteed holes in your knowledge. It's fun but also like a crow attracted to sparkly things.

I signed up for Adam Rafferty's Udemy as an intro. Six String Fingerpicking is also intriguing. I also bought the Berklee books in kindle form b/c I want to not rely on tabs.

Thank you everyone for your help!!!

[PeasantDaughter]

Originally Posted by tbirdman

Why not take lessons directly from Mark Hanson or Muriel Anderson who was the first female to win the National fingerpicking competition. Both are $100/hr.

Maybe I can afford that after my parent student loans are paid off and I've finally purchased some retirement property in a third world country if I work long enough to collect enough social security.

Seriously.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by PeasantDaughter

Maybe I can afford that after my parent student loans are paid off and I've finally purchased some retirement property in a third world country if I work long enough to collect enough social security.

Seriously.

You are on a great hobby path for retirement, when that time comes. Music, especially guitar, CAN (I used caps because this is a guitar forum that instills GAS on occasion ) be very inexpensive once you are situated with a suitable guitar and a solid direction. In retirement, these things matter both from a financial standpoint as well as consideration for how you want to keep your mind active. There is always something new to learn with the guitar, so it will never get boring or outgrown.

Besides the guitar, any other materials (i.e. books, lessons, etc.) are all as optional as you want or need them to be. No matter what, you would always have that guitar to play.

Also, with that Adam Rafferty course, there is a section on how to arrange your favorite tunes for fingerstyle guitar. He uses "Silent Night" and goes through it in detail SLOWLY and step by step. You then can apply those same steps to any other tune you wish to arrange, so you are not stuck with having to have TAB that somebody else arranged and with songs that somebody else arranged instead of being able to choose what interests you.

The Six String Fingerpicking guy also has a whole course on arranging if you should ever feel the need for more. He splits up his courses into several so you don't have to buy one big course. He also has course bundles to save money.

A beginner fingerpicking course
An intermediate fingerpicking course
An advanced fingerpicking course
An arranging course

...and a couple of others that may or may not be of interest. However, the Adam Rafferty course may be all you need. If nothing else, you will have a solid foundation from which to tackle anything else that interests you.

Tony

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by tbirdman

Why not take lessons directly from Mark Hanson or Muriel Anderson who was the first female to win the National fingerpicking competition. Both are $100/hr.

That already sounds like a good reason not to.

I don't know about Anderson, but what could Hanson give you in an hour that you can't get from his book? He could certainly assess your technique usefully, but so could a much cheaper teacher.

I know that great teachers are inspiring (beyond the actual time they give you), so that the best are worth paying extra. But $100 seems excessive to me.

[tbirdman]

Originally Posted by JonPR

That already sounds like a good reason not to.

I don't know about Anderson, but what could Hanson give you in an hour that you can't get from his book? He could certainly assess your technique usefully, but so could a much cheaper teacher.

I know that great teachers are inspiring (beyond the actual time they give you), so that the best are worth paying extra. But $100 seems excessive to me.

I taking lesson from Muriel Anderson. I took one live private lesson and now I'm doing the Truefire monthly non live lesson.

A good teacher can provide great help in developing the proper technique and also feedback. Yes, you can learn this stuff on your own, but a good teacher is worth it if you can afford it.

Also you can buy lessons from Muriel Anderson and others on Truefire for a one time fairly inexpensive fee.

As a beginner, I would read https://www.amazon.com/Laws-Brainjo-.../dp/B085GBG23P, an inexpensive read from Amazon. The book has a lot of good advice for beginners.

[Brent Hutto]

Originally Posted by JonPR

I know that great teachers are inspiring (beyond the actual time they give you), so that the best are worth paying extra. But $100 seems excessive to me.

This is true. Price has much more to do with the teacher's location and with how well known they are than with their ability to inspire students. The most inspiring music teacher in my personal experience had what I thought was remarkably low hourly rate, not to mention frequently going above and beyond the scheduled lesson time or providing additional feedback or materials the day after a lesson.

Any of us can benefit from an inspiring teacher but for the actual teaching and feedback part, a total beginner simply needs a competent and experienced teacher. Not one who is well known for their performing or as the author of popular pedagogical content. I suspect at least 30-40% of that $100/hour rate is due to those factors.

[tbirdman]

Originally Posted by Brent Hutto

This is true. Price has much more to do with the teacher's location and with how well known they are than with their ability to inspire students. The most inspiring music teacher in my personal experience had what I thought was remarkably low hourly rate, not to mention frequently going above and beyond the scheduled lesson time or providing additional feedback or materials the day after a lesson.

Any of us can benefit from an inspiring teacher but for the actual teaching and feedback part, a total beginner simply needs a competent and experienced teacher. Not one who is well known for their performing or as the author of popular pedagogical content. I suspect at least 30-40% of that $100/hour rate is due to those factors.

I agree with the point that great players are not necessarily good teachers. I had one teacher who was a very well known guitarist in the PNW, and he sucked at teaching. I also take singing, piano and guitar lessons from two instructors at the local community college. because of the senior discount, they are $22/45 minute lesson. I like them both and at $22 it's a steal. took a beginner guitar class when I first started and the instructor was awful. So teachers can be all over the place as price and skills. But if you find one or two, keep them. But I will vouch for Muriel that besides a very accomplished musician, she's a great teacher also. At $99/mo I feel her feedback and advice is well worth it.

[reeve21]

I think you have gotten every possible answer, and then some!

Less is more. I have lots of materials I never really cracked.

I started from scratch with Mark Hanson's Intro to Travis Picking book.

After about 7 months I started taking lessons, and still do with the same teacher almost 5 years later. $25/half hour which is all I can absorb at a time, every week. I got lucky.

These 2 resources have meant more for me than all of the others combined.

[TBman]

Stop.

Before anyone jumps into fingerstyle as beginner there is a certain amount of fretboard common sense that comes from learning to play chords and being able to play them with little effort. There is a ton of muscle memory (and dexterity) that gets acquired from the "cowboy" chords and later on from moveable barre chords.

Yes, someone can learn right hand technique from the start, but to really free the right hand to learn fingerstyle, the left hand has to be on autopilot - and that comes from a firm foundation of chord playing.

If someone can't play 4 or 5 chords in a simple 100 bpm strumming tune without making mistakes and hesitating, spending time learning right hand finger style technique is a bit of putting the cart before the horse.

To play finger style so that it is pleasant for others to listen to takes a lot of work even on slow pieces.