the ultimate guitar pickup -- I'm not kidding

[bravebone]

I've been through them all: Bband, Anthem, PUTW, DTAR, Fish, and I've finally found a solution that actually sounds like an acoustic guitar. well to be honest, I copied this from Doug Young, its what he uses in some of his top guitars even though I've had to take his brilliant work a step further.

Read on my brothers, this isn't for the faint of heart but its worth the $$ and the time it takes to install it properly. DYoung uses a DTAR wave length with a K&K three sensors along with a DPA 4061 mic in stereo in his guitars. the DPA mic is a condenser mic so it requires phantom power which is supplied by the DTAR wave length pre AFTER ITS BEEN altered to do so. Instructions on how to do this are on the DTAR site but basically you add two 1.8 watt resistors to the preamp.

Once that is done, you can solder the DPA 4061 as the second source on the Wavelength pre. you need a stereo cable and a decent outboard preamp to tailor the sound from the mic (rolloff the bass basically.) You can add in some of the K & K minis for more saddle sound but basically you will probably be using the DPA as the primary sound.

(Why K&K three pad mini instead of the undersaddle pickup? because I've found the undersaddle robs the guitar of some of its sound and beyond that, undersaddle pickups have their, how do we say, limitations.)

Doug Young says he used the DPA as the primary sound and because when the DPA is inserted in the guitar peeking out of the soundhole, the feedback is minimal. of course if you were playing with STIX live at the coliseum, you might want to use the K&K as the primary pickup.

Anyway the sound is fantastic. I took it to a local music store and they said it sounds "in your face." it actually sounds like the cliche; your guitar, louder. The DPA lists for around $600 but you can buy them used on ebay from $100 to $200. its a very small microphone, about the size of rice, and if you want a pic of where its installed, let me know, I'll send you.

So we have Doug Young to thank for this and the story could stop here except that I wanted the same for a second guitar I own that had a built in barn door pickup and rather than switch to the system as described above, I wanted to be able to use the BBand onboard barndoor and still use the DPA 4061 mic.

So I talked to a bunch of geniuses around the country including some folks at DPA and Joe Glazer in Nashville who was kind enough to talk to me at length on how to do this. This is unchartered territory so we guessed on how to do this and it turned out that it works like a charm.

You basically have to (well you don't HAVE to do anything, its a free country) solder a guitar endpin jack in stereo; one side is the barndoor or pickup of your choice and the other side is the DPA mic.

and here's where it gets dicey; Glazer suggested that the guitar cable be two separate cables so I ordered a DPA SPC44690 minature mic cable and a DPA DAD4099 Microdot to XLR connector. (are you still with me?) what the Microdot XLR preamp connector does is step down the 48V phantom power coming from your outboard preamp to 9v, which is what the DPA needs for power. (yes, your outboard preamp needs phantom power but not to fret, BAGGS para acoustic DI has it as well as the Headway EDB-1 which I use.)

so you solder the DPA min mic cable to one side of a stereo plug and a regular guitar cable to the other side. The DPA mini has Microdot connectors on both ends but make sure to not splice up the one end that plugs into the DPA microdot to XLR connector that will plug into your preamp.

in essence, the guitar dual cable has an XLR from the DPA transformer and a regular 1/4" guitar cable on the same end. on the other end, its a stereo 1/4" that plugs into the guitar.

It sound expensive but I was able to get a DPA mic on ebay for $130, the DPA
transformer available from Sweetwater for $120 and $55 for the DPA microdot cable. altogether this hybrid unit costs around $300 and of course hours to solder and get it running right. but trust me, its worth it. The DPA mics have a great sound for an acoustic and placement around the soundhole isn't that critical as I placed it at the edge of the soundhole near the treble strings and I can still hear the bass strings in equal proportion.

I don't work for DPA, Sweetwater or anybody else. I'm just a farmer with a six string but as I said before, I've tried them all and they all suck -- until I found this one.

If you come up with something better, let me know and I'll do the same.

Seacrest out.

[fullsmile]

I'm glad I just play at home and don't have to worry about this because I am not an electrical engineer. Are you serious? I can't believe you had to do all of that just to get a pick-up that sounds nice. hope it is worth the work.

[Wadcutter]

K&K Pure Western Mini

[pitner]

I really like the K and K also. Having one put in my Olson SJ as I write. Can't wait to get my hands on that guitar with it's K and K goodness.

[Steely Glen]

This discussion belongs in the "Electric" section of this forum....

[JRB]

Are those 1.8K Ohm resisters (or 1.8 Ohm resistors)?

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by fullsmile

I'm glad I just play at home and don't have to worry about this because I am not an electrical engineer. Are you serious? I can't believe you had to do all of that just to get a pick-up that sounds nice. hope it is worth the work.

It's really not a big deal. It's a K&K mini with a 2 channel preamp that supports a mic, and I added the mic. Pretty basic for a dual source pickup, as far as complexity, it's a tad simpler than the DTar multisource, or Anthem, or active K&K setup. The thing that makes this setup work - for me (it would not be for everyone) is the combination of K&K mini and a very high quality mic.

I've recently simplified this on several guitars after picking up a pickup/mic module for my SPS1. The module provides phantom for the mic, and amplification, so I no longer need the DTar preamp, and the SPS-1 module is likely higher qualty anyway. So now, my setup is simply K&K mini + mic wired to the K&K ring, no preamp or battery in the guitar, just about as simple as you can get. - the highest tech part is the radio shack wire clip with double sticky tape that holds the mic.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by JRB

Are those 1.8K Ohm resisters (or 1.8 Ohm resistors)?

See the DTar site for instructions on using the 2nd channel on their preamp, you can choose different values depending on the gain you need. I believe I used 10K ohm.

[rb1591]

Yes, please post photo or description of how and where the mic is mounted.
Thanks,
RB

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by rb1591

Yes, please post photo or description of how and where the mic is mounted.
Thanks,
RB

Here you go. We've actually discussed this several times here recently. I got this mic placement and basic idea from Laurence Juber, who uses an Audix mic in this location (with the Wavelength UST and preamp). After seeing and hearing his, I hooked up a similar mic, the DPA 4061 in the same location, and also liked the results. Laurence has a nice, neat-looking black foam block that holds his mic, I first assembled a block with velcro and foam, and then saw Teja Gerken using a radio shack cable clip along with a bit of foam to make a neater-looking holder:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062666



This is the position Laurence uses, right in the middle, bottom of the soundhole, just inside the edge. On some other guitars, I have to move it slightly one way or another to accommodate bracing, which doesn't seem to make much difference.

The DPA's are pricey new, they're a very good mic, $400-500. But they come up on ebay used all the time, much cheaper. I almost grabbed 4 of them for $400 today, so $100 each, but decided I didn't really need 4 more. I know someone who got 2 for $100 total a while back, again used, but working. These are used in broadway plays, and come up with broken connectors and so on. Since I'm cutting them off and soldering them in, it's not a problem.

Doug

[guitarisrshevy]

I have a similar set up but with 2 sources send to a Headway EDB-1. Its slightly less tricky to set up than the first post but still gets fantastic sound.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by guitarisrshevy

I have a similar set up but with 2 sources send to a Headway EDB-1. Its slightly less tricky to set up than the first post but still gets fantastic sound.

what's the mic, David?

[bravebone]

I wrapped a piece of foam around the mic and secured it to the body with one of the same fasteners used to secure cables inside a guitar.

http://www.jeffseverson.com/DPA.jpg

[HudsDad]

Fixed that for you...

[guitarisrshevy]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

what's the mic, David?

Its a DPA 4060