BagAmp in the house!

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by Pegleg

Ok, so we've got the sarcasm taken care of; is there an answer to my honest question? By the way, speaker direction apparently does not matter in regard to "line array" as the newer configurations curve the speakers so that the base speakers point downward. Or, so goes the description I read. I have read this point made in several threads (the SoloAmp is not true line array) and I could do the research and educate myself... or y'all could just enlighten me and save me the trouble? Thanks.

The curve is used to improve dispersion. The Bose L1 Compact is curved to compensate for its short array.

[BuleriaChk]

Subjectively, I think the main advantage of either a "line array" or a line array is the configuration of a "column of sound" in either. I can't imagine that the separation at the level of difference in any of these (L1, Compact, or SoloAmp) can make an audible difference, all other things being equal, especially in the audio spectrum.

But then some people say they can tell the difference between a Monster audio cable and a coat hanger, which is very good for either Monster or coat hanger manufacturers, depending........

But then I've been wrong only once, and that was when I thought I made a mistake........

[geokie8]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

In a line array, the rate at which volume diminishes with distance is less than that of a conventional speaker system. Therefore, a line array projects sound with less drop off. The effect is similar to that of a flashlight with a focused beam.

So a line array system will actually project farther than a traditional loudspeaker -- in a linear sense -- and not just disperse the sound better -- in a surroundsound sense? (Sorry if language is failing me).

So back to my original question. I would probably be better served by investing in a Bagamp than a single JBL EON 510 for a small outside venue? Their respective prices aren't really that far apart.

Thx again,

geokie8

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by geokie8

So a line array system will actually project farther than a traditional loudspeaker -- in a linear sense -- and not just disperse the sound better -- in a surroundsound sense? (Sorry if language is failing me).

So back to my original question. I would probably be better served by investing in a Bagamp than a single JBL EON 510 for a small outside venue? Their respective prices aren't really that far apart.

Thx again,

geokie8

There are, of course, other factors to consider but in theory, a line array should be a better choice.

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by BuleriaChk

Subjectively, I think the main advantage of either a "line array" or a line array is the configuration of a "column of sound" in either. I can't imagine that the separation at the level of difference in any of these (L1, Compact, or SoloAmp) can make an audible difference, all other things being equal, especially in the audio spectrum.

But then some people say they can tell the difference between a Monster audio cable and a coat hanger, which is very good for either Monster or coat hanger manufacturers, depending........

But then I've been wrong only once, and that was when I thought I made a mistake........

Unlike tonal quality, the volume drop off at a given distance from the speaker system is measurable and and the differences between each system should be readily audible. A Bose L1 Model I or Model II will have less of a drop off than the BagAmp and the BagAmp should have less of a drop off than the SoloAmp.

[FingerPlucked]

Here's a video of the BagAmp in use. The sound is being recorded by the camcorder's onboard mics. It won't answer any questions about line arrays and sound dispersion, but it does give the BagAmp a starring role:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDnT17g_pZI

[Pegleg]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

Unlike tonal quality, the volume drop off at a given distance from the speaker system is measurable and and the differences between each system should be readily audible. A Bose L1 Model I or Model II will have less of a drop off than the BagAmp and the BagAmp should have less of a drop off than the SoloAmp.

Ok, I "get it" now, semantics aside, the belief is that the Bose/BA will project better than the SA. And it's measurable, but as of yet nobody (folks or the manufacturers) have conducted a controlled experiment to valid the belief. So, it will remain a curious question, at least in my mind, as I'm not so curious as to buy the other two and do it myself!

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by Pegleg

Ok, I "get it" now, semantics aside, the belief is that the Bose/BA will project better than the SA. And it's measurable, but as of yet nobody (folks or the manufacturers) have conducted a controlled experiment to valid the belief. So, it will remain a curious question, at least in my mind, as I'm not so curious as to buy the other two and do it myself!

I wish I had the resources to test the performance of each system in a large theater. The magazine reviews I've seen rarely conduct scientific evaluations of the musician's gear.

[geokie8]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

There are, of course, other factors to consider but in theory, a line array should be a better choice.

OK, Herb, one last question:

You have 12,041 posts. What percentage have turned out to be wrong?

geokie8

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by geokie8

OK, Herb, one last question:

You have 12,041 posts. What percentage have turned out to be wrong?

geokie8

Too many have been wrong, hence the many posts. I'm trying to improve my average. Seriously though, I've had my embarrassing moments.

[BuleriaChk]

So, I guess there are valid tradeoffs between the system.

The L1, Compact, and the BagAmp have less theoretical but as yet unmeasured (unverified) drop-off than the SoloAmp.

The L1 and Compact have a luggable bass system that will allow for full-range amplification for DJ's..... The BagAmp and SoloAmp do not....

The SoloAmp has multiband EQ, Reverb, Send/Return, a better bag - the BagAmp does not.... (I'll trade those for the price difference myself - for me, they are definitely worth it). And it is more portable than the Bose products, and the speakers are protected compared to the BagAmp.....

In any case, you pay for what you get - I'm very happy with the features/price point of the SoloAmp, considering the alternatives. As far as the drop-off is concerned, I would be very surprised if it made a real, practical difference in an objective test.....

And I wouldn't be wrong - about being surprised, that is......

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by BuleriaChk

So, I guess there are valid tradeoffs between the system.

The L1, Compact, and the BagAmp have less theoretical but as yet unmeasured (unverified) drop-off than the SoloAmp.

The L1 and Compact have a luggable bass system that will allow for full-range amplification for DJ's..... The BagAmp and SoloAmp do not....

The SoloAmp has multiband EQ, Reverb, Send/Return, a better bag - the BagAmp does not.... (I'll trade those for the price difference myself - for me, they are definitely worth it). And it is more portable than the Bose products, and the speakers are protected compared to the BagAmp.....

In any case, you pay for what you get - I'm very happy with the features/price point of the SoloAmp, considering the alternatives. As far as the drop-off is concerned, I would be very surprised if it made a real, practical difference in an objective test.....

And I wouldn't be wrong - about being surprised, that is......

"Unverified"...?

I guess maybe unverified in a lab...but tens of thousands of Bose owners would claim anecdotal "proof," if you will...and as one of those owners, I would agree.

Same with the BagAmp (for me), as I've tested it (and the SoloAmp) under performance conditions, and my ears told me what I needed to know about the very real differences in propagation, and the very real ability to use the BagAmp on-stage and behind without the volume being too loud for the performer...which is not possible for me with the SoloAmp.

P.S. If you go to the BagAmp website you will see that they are releasing a sub shortly. A small mixing board, as well, that will further increase the BA's flexibility.

For me, the BagAmp is an overall better sound than the SoloAmp, and the BA also has the on-stage/monitor functionality that the SA does not.

I'm glad both products exist, as they're both well made, and both will have satisfied users.

[FingerPlucked]

Originally Posted by BuleriaChk

The L1, Compact, and the BagAmp have less theoretical but as yet unmeasured (unverified) drop-off than the SoloAmp.

The L1 and Compact have a luggable bass system that will allow for full-range amplification for DJ's..... The BagAmp and SoloAmp do not....

The SoloAmp has multiband EQ, Reverb, Send/Return, a better bag - the BagAmp does not.... (I'll trade those for the price difference myself - for me, they are definitely worth it). And it is more portable than the Bose products, and the speakers are protected compared to the BagAmp.

A couple of us are getting together this weekend to A/B the BagAmp & SoloAmp in a setting big enough to get some meaningful results. I'm thinking about picking up a cheap db meter at Radio Shack to try to quantify some of the differences.

The BagAmp has an optional subwoofer. I'm not sure yet, but I'm starting to think it'd sound better with more bottom end, particularly on my voice. I'm not sure how BagAmp's subwoofer works though. (Hopefully Jack is still watching this thread.) The Bose system uses a crossover, and once the subwoofer is engaged, the tower speakers no longer have to carry the low frequency load. I'm guessing, but I don't think the BagAmp is set up that way. I believe it's going to use a full-frequency line out to the subwoofer and the subwoofer will then add more bass frequencies. But the 8 speakers in the column will continue to amplify the full range down to 100 hz.

The speaker protection issue isn't an issue for me. If I hit one of them with a hammer, I will damage it. The same is true of a lot of my other gear. As long as the speakers are protected during transit, which they are, I'm not concerned.

As to full eq and effects, I agree. The BagAmp would have wider appeal if they had been added to the basic amp rather than forcing an add-on.

[BuleriaChk]

Hey, different strokes for different folks.... as true in religion as it is in unverified claims that are not scientific .....

Lessee, now, if I bought the mixer for the BagAmp, what would that raise the price to? And it is a separate unit I would have to connect ..... (and I guess I could buy a comparable woofer for the SA, but I don't need it....)

But if standing in front of the SA is a deal breaker, than so be it -- I haven't had that problem, myself..... and I bet there are tens of thousands of SA users that haven't had that problem either (unverified scientifically, of course...

I haven't heard the BagAmp as far as quality of sound is concerned, but subjectively I think the SA compares equivalently to my LR Baggs A-Ref, which is the best I've heard to date for clarity and string definition/dynamics; the SR Jam 150 is the closest next-in line..... I haven't heard the Bose or the BagAmp systems, but the amps I've mentioned make my guitar sound exactly like it does unplugged - so the differences are in the features....

That said, the pickup/preamps are of fundamental importance in all of this - I use Takamine CTP-2/Palathetic pickups which solved all my problems (for nylon string Flamenco, for which the above parameters are extremely important)...... well, ok, new strings are pretty important too.. (which reminds me - I have to change mine today to stretch in before the weekend....)

I agree that it is important to discuss these differences to educate potential buyers of either system, for sure......

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

"Unverified"...?

I guess maybe unverified in a lab...but tens of thousands of Bose owners would claim anecdotal "proof," if you will...and as one of those owners, I would agree.

Same with the BagAmp (for me), as I've tested it (and the SoloAmp) under performance conditions, and my ears told me what I needed to know about the very real differences in propagation, and the very real ability to use the BagAmp on-stage and behind without the volume being too loud for the performer...which is not possible for me with the SoloAmp.

P.S. If you go to the BagAmp website you will see that they are releasing a sub shortly. A small mixing board, as well, that will further increase the BA's flexibility.

For me, the BagAmp is an overall better sound than the SoloAmp, and the BA also has the on-stage/monitor functionality that the SA does not.

I'm glad both products exist, as they're both well made, and both will have satisfied users.

[FingerPlucked]

Originally Posted by BuleriaChk

I haven't had that problem, myself..... and I bet there are tens of thousands of SA users that haven't had that problem either (unverified scientifically, of course...

Well, yeah, considering that they haven't sold tens of thousands of SoloAmps.