The Sonic Properties of Poplar

[tkersey]

I was reading another thread in which someone said that the backs and sides of 200 series Taylors are comprised primarily of poplar, with a veneer of rosewood. I have a 210 myself so this made me curious. I like the way my guitar sounds and plays which is what really matters. Even still, I’m wondering what the typical characteristics of poplar are and why Taylor might have selected it. Anyone care to enlighten me?

[Skydog]

Originally Posted by tkersey

I was reading another thread in which someone said that the backs and sides of 200 series Taylors are comprised primarily of poplar, with a veneer of rosewood. I have a 210 myself so this made me curious. I like the way my guitar sounds and plays which is what really matters. Even still, I’m wondering what the typical characteristics of poplar are and why Taylor might have selected it. Anyone care to enlighten me?

Expense and weight?

[Talk2Me]

Originally Posted by tkersey

I was reading another thread in which someone said that the backs and sides of 200 series Taylors are comprised primarily of poplar, with a veneer of rosewood. I have a 210 myself so this made me curious. I like the way my guitar sounds and plays which is what really matters. Even still, I’m wondering what the typical characteristics of poplar are and why Taylor might have selected it. Anyone care to enlighten me?

I think you'll find your answers here: https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=611291

As to the "why Taylor selected it"....the only ones who actually know are here: https://www.taylorguitars.com/contact

[The Bard Rocks]

I always felt poplar had a much better sound than, say, toilet paper. By definition, it is a hardwood, only not a very hard or resonant one. Hence its use as a layer.

I've harbored a suspicion, one unencumbered by any facts, that softer wood acts better than it normally would if it's combined with glue and a regular hardwood layer. Might make an interesting topic to discuss some time, not now.

[Robin, Wales]

I have owned a few very good sounding vintage dulcimers made from poplar. One was a Ledford cut from wood panels from Berea College originally installed in the 19th century.

The wood doesn't take some finishes well (except for paint) so it would be perhaps a bit too "rustic" for a guitar maker to choose?

My impression gained from dulcimers is that the timbre is also quite "rustic" (not in a bad way). I would imagine that it would be quite earthy and dry if used for a guitar b/s. I could be wrong though.

[gr81dorn]

Poplar is stable, consistent, porous to soak up glue nicely and one of the cheapest hardwood species in North America and probably the most abundantly available, so it’s the perfect choice to be the core of the plywood Taylor uses on the MIM products.

If you want to know what it would look like as a guitar body, look at Breedlove’s Oregon series Myrtle wood guitars. That’s probably what it would look like. If you wanna know what it would sound like, it would not sound terrible, but it’s not ideal as a tonewood, but builders of cheaper guitar in the middle of the last century used them.

The dulcimers makers used them cuz Appalachia is crawling with tulip trees and it’s a really easy wood to work with.

[printer2]

Originally Posted by The Bard Rocks

I always felt poplar had a much better sound than, say, toilet paper. By definition, it is a hardwood, only not a very hard or resonant one. Hence its use as a layer.

I've harbored a suspicion, one unencumbered by any facts, that softer wood acts better than it normally would if it's combined with glue and a regular hardwood layer. Might make an interesting topic to discuss some time, not now.

The time is now.

The outside layers are not thick enough to make much difference. The reason for using poplar is it is the cheapest hardwood that is in common supply. It is easy to manufacture, a layer is pealed off the log with a rotary knife (log revolving). Poplar can be had free of voids, another plus.

[PineMarten]

Poplar is used on some old Italian double basses which today are considered very fine instruments. Material availability would have been very different in pre-industrialised Europe, and it was typically under very dark varnishes, but the use on stringed instrument backs and sides is not unprecedented.

[Mandobart]

Interesting that just a few hours prior to this thread starting on poplar, an earlier thread had resuraced.

I enjoyed a set by Mighty Poplar at Wintergrass two weekends ago.....

[fregly]

I know of one Luthier who uses it for back bracing.

[Steve DeRosa]

Fender used it in regular production during the '50s-60s - the Squier line still does...

[koolimy]

I have zero experience with Poplar as a tonewood, but if you go to the Wood Database, you'll see that Yellow Poplar has very similar properties to Port Orford Cedar

https://www.wood-database.com/yellow-poplar/

https://www.wood-database.com/port-orford-cedar/

From a brief reading, I think the biggest reason why Poplar is not used in acoustic guitars is because of its softness. Unlike electric guitars, acoustic guitars need to have thin back and sides with a thin finish, so it will be hard to protect the guitar if the wood is not strong enough.

Regarding its tonal qualities, I reckon it will be closer to something like Cypress (Port Orford Cedar is also a Cypress). Cypress has been the traditional B&S wood of Flamenco guitars, which usually have a very snappy attack and percussiveness. Of course, I have heard that Cypress woods have low damping, while I would reckon that Poplar has higher damping.

Nonetheless, like everything, I bet it would be possible to make an amazing sounding guitar from Poplar. On the Rosewood-Maple spectrum I guess it'll be further beyond Maple in emphasizing the fundamental and immediate attack.

Of course, its property when used in a laminate probably changes drastically, as the laminating process probably adds a lot of stiffness and weight.

[rollypolly]

Seems too soft to use as a back and sides by itself. It seems softer than mahogany and it doesn’t tap tone well apparently. It’s ugly. Not sure any other reason to use it except that it’s cheap and it might market slightly better on their website as opposed to saying they use pine.

[Br1ck]

I have two early 50s cheap guitars, a Stella and an no name arch top. They are poplar and both are faux painted. It is what they used before plywood. They both sound like what a depression era farmer might buy. Better than nothing. But I think a luthier is capable of building with poplar and a good spruce top and making a great sounding instrument.

[Sadie-f]

The maple used for b&s has a janka hardness nearly 60% higher than poplar, and is about 17% more dense.

So .. far easier to work with than figured maple, and a good deal less expensive.

I could imagine it working for back bracing, however I'm going to continue using Adi spruce.