Fishman Infinity Blend or...

[MrErikJ]

I have a new Guild OM-150 on the way and was wanting to identify some good (preferably dual source) UST options from the crew. I considered the K&K Trinity as well but I do want to a more stable primary source than the Pure Mini. In the past I often used the LB6 or the M1a, and am still open to those, but I prefer piezo to mag. The LB6 sounds great and is very stable but putting it in the Baggs Dual Source is a huge hassle and, depending on your tech, installing the LB6 is either simple or a disaster. It's also nice to be able to sand the bottom of your saddle for small action adjustments and the LB6 doesn't allow for that. If I decide to go with the LB series again, I'll just go passive and solo.

So, I'm leaning towards the new Matrix Infinity Blend as it seems the most streamlined and simple of the solutions. I also like the stereo option, which the Baggs Anthem doesn't have. So, does anyone use the new Infinity Blend for fingerstyle and have any thoughts? Anyone want to make the case for the Element or Anthem instead?

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by MrErikJ

I have a new Guild OM-150 on the way and was wanting to identify some good (preferably dual source) UST options from the crew. I considered the K&K Trinity as well but I do want to a more stable primary source than the Pure Mini. In the past I often used the LB6 or the M1a, and am still open to those, but I prefer piezo to mag. The LB6 sounds great and is very stable but putting it in the Baggs Dual Source is a huge hassle and, depending on your tech, installing the LB6 is either simple or a disaster. It's also nice to be able to sand the bottom of your saddle for small action adjustments and the LB6 doesn't allow for that. If I decide to go with the LB series again, I'll just go passive and solo.

So, I'm leaning towards the new Matrix Infinity Blend as it seems the most streamlined and simple of the solutions. I also like the stereo option, which the Baggs Anthem doesn't have. So, does anyone use the new Infinity Blend for fingerstyle and have any thoughts? Anyone want to make the case for the Element or Anthem instead?

I haven't tried the newest Infinity Blend but I did have the Fishman Matrix Ellipse blend with the gooseneck mic. I personally find that these systems that have some type of soundhole microphone just never work well in a live setting. The more mic blended in, the muddier things sound. I don't find you really get that clarity that mics often produce. The best I have heard is obviously the Anthem and the Baggs dual source. Both of those have the microphone inside the body which seems to work better.

If I were considering such a system, I would try the Seymour Duncan Wavelength duo. I am actually considering trying the Wavelength and then adding IR's. The Duo is similar to the Fishman mic placement but I like the 18v preamp and the overall tone of the Wavelength more.

[rb1591]

Here are some I've had very good success with:

1) Barbera Soloist - like the LB6, the saddle IS the pickup. Also like the LB6, it requires a wider than normal bridge slot. Once that's done installation is a breeze. Sound is as good as it gets for a single source. Lots of output, but it still needs a preamp with minimum eq, IMO. Very feedback resistant

2) Wavelength and Wavelength Duo – hard to beat for the price and for plug-and-play capabilities. The mic is nicely eq'ed. Not meant to act like an external, but does its job to add a bit of "air." Like all UST's, string to string balance can be an issue. Depending on your gig set up, volume, room, etc., some kind of feedback control is necessary, I think.

3) LB6 – Like you, I'm a fan, but always thought it would benefit from adding another source. You know the pros and cons. IMO, still one of the best and a great value.

4) Although I've never had success with SBTs – I've tried K&K's with and without mic – I went out of a limb recently and put a James May UltraTonic in my Larrivee L. I've got it paired with a Red Eye pre and really like it. Different than what I'm used to, which is mostly those I mentioned above, but in a very good way. Of course, I don't have any gigging experience with it yet, so that's still an unknown.

5) The Baggs Anthem (full or SL) – There's a good reason so many people use the Anthem. Not a miracle worker, but very good. How I would like to see an Anthem with an LB6 instead of the Element! I think most players dial in mostly the Tru-mic and add a little Element to boost the low end. That certainly works. Doesn't mimic an external mic, but sounds more like an SBT but with more clarity.

BTW, aside from routing bridge saddles for the LB6 and Barbera Soloist, I've done all my installations over the years. And I'm no luthier or trained repair guy, but have some limited, modest skills and do my best to be patient and follow the instructions.

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by rb1591

Here are some I've had very good success with:

1) Barbera Soloist - like the LB6, the saddle IS the pickup. Also like the LB6, it requires a wider than normal bridge slot. Once that's done installation is a breeze. Sound is as good as it gets for a single source. Lots of output, but it still needs a preamp with minimum eq, IMO. Very feedback resistant

2) Wavelength and Wavelength Duo – hard to beat for the price and for plug-and-play capabilities. The mic is nicely eq'ed. Not meant to act like an external, but does its job to add a bit of "air." Like all UST's, string to string balance can be an issue. Depending on your gig set up, volume, room, etc., some kind of feedback control is necessary, I think.

3) LB6 – Like you, I'm a fan, but always thought it would benefit from adding another source. You know the pros and cons. IMO, still one of the best and a great value.

4) Although I've never had success with SBTs – I've tried K&K's with and without mic – I went out of a limb recently and put a James May UltraTonic in my Larrivee L. I've got it paired with a Red Eye pre and really like it. Different than what I'm used to, which is mostly those I mentioned above, but in a very good way. Of course, I don't have any gigging experience with it yet, so that's still an unknown.

5) The Baggs Anthem (full or SL) – There's a good reason so many people use the Anthem. Not a miracle worker, but very good. How I would like to see an Anthem with an LB6 instead of the Element! I think most players dial in mostly the Tru-mic and add a little Element to boost the low end. That certainly works. Doesn't mimic an external mic, but sounds more like an SBT but with more clarity.

BTW, aside from routing bridge saddles for the LB6 and Barbera Soloist, I've done all my installations over the years. And I'm no luthier or trained repair guy, but have some limited, modest skills and do my best to be patient and follow the instructions.

Thank you! I looked at the Soloist and it seems like a brilliant update to the LB6 but I thought it was a bit rich at $300. The LB6 is only 85 bucks, 95 if you get a Colosi model with a bone saddle.

I am intrigued by the Wavelength and need to listen to some more clips. Thank you for bringing that up!

The LB6 sounds great on its own and I used it in a Baggs Dual Source, which was nice, but it's a lot of stuff. I wish Baggs would update that unit (something like what Doyle Dykes has in his Godin: LB6, Lyric, Session Preamp). I feel comfortable installing a saddle and lowering it but not shaping one. That's kind of the turn off for me, in the era of Covid

I haven't loved the Element on its own but I've heard the Anthem and it often sounds great. I don't see it as popular with instrumentalists, as it seems more ideal for singer-songwriters, but it is an impressive system. I think what turns me off is the largeness of the unit and its foundation in the Element. I too wish it was the LB models but I believe that would make crossover more complicated for the circuit and install more difficult.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by rb1591

Here are some I've had very good success with:

1) Barbera Soloist - like the LB6, the saddle IS the pickup. Also like the LB6, it requires a wider than normal bridge slot. Once that's done installation is a breeze. Sound is as good as it gets for a single source. Lots of output, but it still needs a preamp with minimum eq, IMO. Very feedback resistant

2) Wavelength and Wavelength Duo – hard to beat for the price and for plug-and-play capabilities. The mic is nicely eq'ed. Not meant to act like an external, but does its job to add a bit of "air." Like all UST's, string to string balance can be an issue. Depending on your gig set up, volume, room, etc., some kind of feedback control is necessary, I think.

3) LB6 – Like you, I'm a fan, but always thought it would benefit from adding another source. You know the pros and cons. IMO, still one of the best and a great value.

4) Although I've never had success with SBTs – I've tried K&K's with and without mic – I went out of a limb recently and put a James May UltraTonic in my Larrivee L. I've got it paired with a Red Eye pre and really like it. Different than what I'm used to, which is mostly those I mentioned above, but in a very good way. Of course, I don't have any gigging experience with it yet, so that's still an unknown.

5) The Baggs Anthem (full or SL) – There's a good reason so many people use the Anthem. Not a miracle worker, but very good. How I would like to see an Anthem with an LB6 instead of the Element! I think most players dial in mostly the Tru-mic and add a little Element to boost the low end. That certainly works. Doesn't mimic an external mic, but sounds more like an SBT but with more clarity.

BTW, aside from routing bridge saddles for the LB6 and Barbera Soloist, I've done all my installations over the years. And I'm no luthier or trained repair guy, but have some limited, modest skills and do my best to be patient and follow the instructions.

Great breakdown, thanks! In all honesty, is the Wavelength that much of an improvement over most USTs? I know tonally it will be similar but I have heard that it sounds a bit warmer, fatter etc.

The LB6 is a pickup that has always sounded good to me but when I ordered one in the spring, I was disappointed to realize that the length was just a bit more than my Taylor. Definitely not into having anyting down to the saddle slot length.

[rb1591]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Great breakdown, thanks! In all honesty, is the Wavelength that much of an improvement over most USTs? I know tonally it will be similar but I have heard that it sounds a bit warmer, fatter etc.

The LB6 is a pickup that has always sounded good to me but when I ordered one in the spring, I was disappointed to realize that the length was just a bit more than my Taylor. Definitely not into having anyting down to the saddle slot length.

Petty 1818: Although I've never done a side-by-side comparison, I think "fatter, warmer" describes the difference I hear with the Wavelength. I assume that's a result of the 18V preamp. It definitely has more output than any system I've ever used. I like that because not only is it very responsive by dynamic to touch, it affords a very low signal-to-noise ratio. But yes, but it's still sonically a UST.

BTW, concerning the LB6 and Barbera Soloist, it's not so much the length of the saddle slot that has to be increased with some guitars, but the width of the saddle slot. It requires some specialized tools, but many well-equipped and knowledgeable repair people can handle it.

MrEricJ: I think you right about the Anthem not being as popular with instrumentalists and maybe a bit more friendly to strumming. IMO, it certainly doesn't have the articulation as of LB6 or Barbera Soloist.

[MrErikJ]

Thanks for all the input folks! I am curious if anyone has an opinion on the Infinity Blend though. I have generally preferred Baggs but it is hard to beat the lightweight design and universalism of a Fishman product. They always work.

[rb1591]

If you haven't already watched, this is an excellent hands-on review by Aaron Short of the Fishman Matrix Blend. Aaron is on this forum regularly.

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by rb1591

If you haven't already watched, this is an excellent hands-on review by Aaron Short of the Fishman Matrix Blend. Aaron is on this forum regularly.

I did watch that! I was curious to hear more input from others but I have heard, as a whole, that it’s the best Matrix series yet. I haven’t, historically, loved the Matrix series but this update seems pretty cool.