When did Taylor prices skyrocket?

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by RGWelch

I was talking to a local music store owner, not a big one but we'll established. He had been trying to get a Taylor dealership, sells Seagull and Simon Patrick now. Said he got approved by Taylor, but the buy in was minimum $20k inventory, and he had to buy $30k min annually, that is in dealer cost! He passed on it.

That is why, after 20 years of carrying the brand, my favorite local music instrument dealer finally dropped being a dealer for Taylor guitars.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Wadcutter

I am totally blown away at the prices of new top quality guitars like Martin and Taylor. I don’t know how the average working class Joe can afford these prices. Credit cards maybe. Great guitars no doubt, but man those prices are off the charts. I would never be able to afford a brand new HD28 today. Glad I got mine many years ago when they were more affordable. And mine is “wing free” too! 👍

I see the same thing with getting a college education. I sure am glad I got mine before the big increases. It seems everything is going up, and it usually isn't in a linear fashion, so we will see big jumps in some areas and smaller increases in others.

Tony

[RGWelch]

I suspect one issue is a decline in younger musicians interest in guitars. I'd be curious what the sales volume is for new guitars. I see teenagers these days largely less interested in playing guitars like previous generations. I know my 19 year old stepson was never interested. In part this may be because of video games and online activities. Also, the popularity of rap music.

[Wadcutter]

Originally Posted by vindibona1

Taylor is great at two things: Margin and marketing. They build good guitars that satisfy a large slice of the market place. They have huge name recognition which they parlay into desirability, which leads to pricing and margin.

Secondly, many of their innovations aren't necessarily improvements in the build and sound of their guitars, but a way to build them cheaper. While some may argue that Taylor's ES2 system is better than their ES1, one thing that cannot be argued is that the ES2 is MUCH cheaper to produce and install. So while promoting the ES2 as an improvement it serves them in both marketing and margin. I can also point to the metamorphosis of the 614ce over a 10 year period. In each iteration, they have taken steps to reduce the cost to build it. Example: a 2008 had gorgeous big leaf maple back and sides (which might be considered AAA flaming in some circles) with a 3-piece back which some might consider a work of art. Fast forward 3 years to 2011, and the 614 had a two piece back and downgraded maple. Fast forward again to 2018 and they added the V bracing which IMO may kill off the model. My speculation is that V bracing is cheaper to build and install than X bracing. IME the V bracing is not ideal for all the models of their guitars. The 614-V that I played the other day was is a shining example. Let's just say, less than spectacular.

Don't get me wrong, some of their innovations are truly brilliant. The NT neck guarantees that over time expensive neck resets will never be necessary. But let's also see it from the other side too. It's cheaper to make, fit and install.

So Taylor does what Taylor does and charges what Taylor can- because they can. That's the beauty of capitalism.

Very, very interesting and informative post. Thanks very much.

[varmonter]

Originally Posted by Wadcutter

I am totally blown away at the prices of new top quality guitars like Martin and Taylor. I don’t know how the average working class Joe can afford these prices. Credit cards maybe. Great guitars no doubt, but man those prices are off the charts. I would never be able to afford a brand new HD28 today. Glad I got mine many years ago when they were more affordable. And mine is “wing free” too! 👍

I know what you mean. Anymore i try to find
a used guitar in great shape Usually can find
a better instrument that way. And it's all broken
in .

[frances50]

I'm glad that I have all the guitars that I want. And I have way more than I need. I still get tempted by some of the older, antique guitars but I've learned just to pass.

[Daveyo]

Greed,I guess,a laminate 210 going for over 1100?
That's just plain silly,even Martins are better priced

[jhmulkey]

Originally Posted by Daveyo

Greed,I guess,a laminate 210 going for over 1100?
That's just plain silly,even Martins are better priced

Well, if you're in business to make money, and enough people are willing to pay that price, that's not "greed," that's just smart business.

[BT55]

Guitar companies like every other company is in business to make money. Your major American guitar manufacturers have chosen the market they are going to compete in. They are not interested in the sub $700 market. Even their off shored offerings are in the $1000+ range but you still get their name on the headstock. As long as the market supports their marketing strategy they will stay with it. If the market changes they will adapt.

[rokdog49]

Having spent most of my career in the plumbing industry I can use Kohler Fixtures as a comparison to Taylor and a shining example of a company who had a respectable market niche and following but was kind of stuck in third gear and wanted to become "the name." When Herbert Kohler passed the torch to his son David, he went into marketing mode to the tenth power.
Soon, Kohler introduced a fleet of high end luxury products that had previously only been offered by European manufacturers through importers and a few West Coast start ups like Jacuzzi et al.They began to advertise in prestigious magazines that folks of higher means subscribe to. That progressed into television and other media. Kohler was "re-branding" itself. In turn Kohler began to squeeze out their smaller distributors. They required a huge inventory commitment and a "showroom" requirement that was impossible for the smaller "Mom and Pop" wholesalers to comply with.
Some tried to sue Kohler. As you can imagine, that didn't go well.
At the end of the day, Kohler grew exponentially and is considered the pre-eminent domestic brand of bathroom fixtures.
That's show biz.

Oh...did I mention that Kohler gets premium pricing? Yes they do. Are their products head and shoulders above everybody else?
Are Taylor's?

[JackB1]

Originally Posted by erhino41

Didn't we just do this?

Sorry. I don’t monitor the forum on a daily basis.

[JackB1]

Originally Posted by LikeASir_

Since the V-braced Taylors came out.

The old X-braced 314ce was for $1799 and the new one is $1999

The X-braced 414ce was $2299 and the new one is $2499

So how did the new V bracing cause the prior X bracing models to also increase?

[lodi_55]

Because they make a good product and reserve the right to raise prices to maintain the margins they need to survive and/or thrive?

Seriously, I wish I had answers as to why the majority or products I use/consume go up in price, much of the time faster than I would like them to

[pvrfederico]

Originally Posted by RGWelch

I was talking to a local music store owner, not a big one but we'll established. He had been trying to get a Taylor dealership, sells Seagull and Simon Patrick now. Said he got approved by Taylor, but the buy in was minimum $20k inventory, and he had to buy $30k min annually, that is in dealer cost! He passed on it.

Does this mean that if someone is willing to buy $20,000 in Taylor guitars for his (and his friends') personal use, he can get the guitars at dealer cost?

What would I have to spend to be a Martin dealer?

[Osage]

Originally Posted by pvrfederico

Does this mean that if someone is willing to buy $20,000 in Taylor guitars for his (and his friends') personal use, he can get the guitars at dealer cost?

No. They won't just let anyone be a dealer. You need to get approved by Taylor and there are a number of factors that go into it.