Good passive dual source pickup for a Ryan guitar?

[gitarro]

I have a newer Kevin Ryan Nightingale that I am thinking of fitting a dual source pickup to. I prefer passive systems as I don't want a battery and preamp inside the guitar. As I want to avoid any effect on its unplugged sound, i would like to use a non undersaddle pickup system.

I would normally want to go for the K & K Trinity but I understand that's not so optimal for the Ryan due to the acoustic honeycomb bridgeplate and the fact that installation of this pickup generally requires superglue on the contact points onto the bridgeplate

Unfortunately I have also been told that a Dazzo pickup installation cannot be done either.

Does anyone have any experience installing and using with good results a passive dual source pickup system that doesn't require an understudies installation nor superglue onto the bridgeplate?

Thanks.

[Ryan Alexander]

Seems like your best bet would be to call Kevin directly on this one. Have you looked inside the guitar? I've seen full and partial honeycomb bridge plates from Ryan - if it's like this I would think you'd be fine with a K&K or Dazzo install:



Whether or not you SHOULD glue a pickup inside a work of art like that is another question altogether Good luck in your search!

[gitarro]

Thanks for your reply Ryan.

I like the k & k trinity a lot but Kevin's shop has recommended against using the k & k on their guitars as it uses superglue as part of the installation. They dont really install a lot of pickups in their guitars so they werent able to give any recommendation except to mention the acoustic feather which they have installed before. Nobody in my country is familiar at all with the feather pickup though.

[Doug Young]

I have a Feather in my Ryan Nightingale, installed by Kevin. I thought he had also recommended the Trance system to others, but maybe I misheard. The Feather is a nice pickup, it's what Al Petteway uses, and it's also the system included in PRS acoustics. It's pretty low-level, so you need a good preamp, but it can sound very natural, and attaches like basically a strip of tape.

I'd stay away from anything that glues on with that bridge plate, but the Feather, PUTW, or Trance all attach as simple tape, so those are all potential options. The Trance system requires a preamp - tho you might consider their phantom-powered system to avoid the battery, I've actually considered swapping out my Feather for that in my Ryan. You'd have an end-pin preamp, but no battery. However, the Trance sounds best (IMO) with the VT control, so that's an extra piece of wiring inside the guitar, which is a little annoying in a nice guitar like that.

PUTW is an option, and you could get the Mi-Si preamp if you want, which charges up with an external battery. The PUTW pickups are closest to the Feather - just a strip of tape, no added bulk or weight, and it can also be used passively, with a good preamp.

You said "dual source", tho. You could pair either the Feather or PUTW with a mic, again, passive with an external preamp to provide the mic power. This can produce a really natural sound, tho SBT+Mic is a fairly feedback-prone combination, so it'd depend on your playing situation. It's what I normally use in all my guitars, and I like it, but I try to avoid situations with high volume.

Hope that helps.

[gitarro]

Thanks Doug. I saw your video on the dpa 4099 with your ryan mission and the guitar sounded great.

Alternatively I suppose that kind of solution would be ideal as i woudnt have to get any pickup fitted at all especially if i were to use a Seymour duncan mag mic or fishman rare earth soundhole pickup. Have you found the dpa 4099 to get too feedback prone if you played with other musicians and singers on the stage?

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by gitarro

Thanks Doug. I saw your video on the dpa 4099 with your ryan mission and the guitar sounded great.

Alternatively I suppose that kind of solution would be ideal as i woudnt have to get any pickup fitted at all especially if i were to use a Seymour duncan mag mic or fishman rare earth soundhole pickup. Have you found the dpa 4099 to get too feedback prone if you played with other musicians and singers on the stage?

The DPA's not really a pickup, of course. It's just a good mic. The main benefit of that is that you can move around, and also maintain a consistent distance (which is both pro and con). But basically, if you can use that, you can also just use a mic on a stand as long as you don't want to move around the stage. One issue with the DPA for a nice guitar is that is can leave little dents in your top - I have them in several guitars I've used that mic with. It's possible that Ryan's UV finish is a bit stronger, but I suspect it could still be an issue. The mic's a little hard to keep in place without clamping tightly. If you watch James Taylor's One Man Band DVD, you'll notice his 4099 appears to be attached to his Olson with duct tape :-)

Whether a mic can work depends on your stage setup. There's definitely the possibility of bleed and feedback with any mic. But people do it all the time. Not likely to work in a rock band, but with a quieter group, and a good sound system (probably avoiding wedge monitors), it can work.

Mags work fine, and are more feedback-resistant, but sound more electric. Not sure if you care, but with a nice guitar, mags do present challenges. Again, you can get clamp marks on the top. If you leave them in, you'll end up with "tan lines" eventually, and if you take them in and out, it's just a matter of time before you chip the edges of the soundhole somewhere. If your view is the guitar's a tool and you just want it to work, then these are minor issues. If you're trying to keep it looking pristine, mags, and even the dpa could be an issue. A lot of people want to use these because they think it won't impact the guitars appearance or value, and ironically, they may be the worst choice for that.

[Racerbob]

If you prefer a mic you might consider the MiniFlex internal mic setup. I put one in a Nightingale with pretty good results. They have several different systems and mount via the end pin hole, no alterations to the guitar itself.

[gitarro]

Thanks to doug and racerbob for your very helpful comments.