#16
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A friend who got a Model 3 instead of a nicely done Accord or Camry showed me his spreadsheet calculating similar cost of ownership over time. Months into owning the Model 3 he says do it just because you always leave home with a full tank. He said his longer road trips are working out better than expected but they also have his wife's car for when charging could be an issue. This won't work for instant gratification but the BEV equivalent of the VW Golf just started coming off the assembly line on east side of the Atlantic and it's supposed to be made in Chattanooga next. I believe unveiled to the US in February. No matter what I suggest you have a new vehicle with AEB and adaptive cruise. There are a lot of good choices out there now but I predict we have a much different buying world in two years. I believe 2022 is the auto industry's self-imposed all cars to have AEB and new BEVs will be shipping soon.
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ƃuoɹʍ llɐ ʇno əɯɐɔ ʇɐɥʇ |
#17
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Thanks for a bunch of interesting answers, guys.
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Rodger, I looked at the HRV and even drove it. I liked it, but I'll probably end up with a Toyota. I think the first hybrid that attracted me was the Highlander which I believe was the first SUV hybrid Toyota made. At least, it was the first one I remember. I'm amazed that the Highlander, like all of them, just gets bigger and bigger. I know batteries can be costly. My brother has an electric vehicle and his battery failed. Fortunately, it was still under warranty, so it didn't cost him a dime. But their replacement does eat away at the gas savings. Quote:
At one dealership, I've been referred to their lead service guy. It's amazing how many blank stares I've gotten when I've asked about how the engine and motor work together, even from guys who have sold cars for 20 years. |
#18
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OK, the whole V8 thing was a joking reference to the ancient V8 juice commercials. I guess nobody else remembers.
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All the years combine, they melt into a dream A broken angel sings from a guitar 2005 Gibson J-45 1985 Guild D17 2012 Fender Am. Std. Stratocaster 1997 Guild Bluesbird |
#19
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I' m incredibly old
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2014 Gibson J-29 Rosewood 2018 Taylor GS Mini 2012 Taylor 314ce 2015 Martin GPCPA5 2016 Taylor 214ce-Nylon 2015 Ventura VWDONAT |
#20
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Regarding these hybrids, I don’t consider them a good investment unless you live in a large city and drive in it all the time. A base model Honda Civic LX Coupe is rated at 37 highway 32 city and according to those who own them, gets over 40 mpg straight highway. At 40 mpg and no batteries, I’ll choose the Civic over a Prius all day long. Heck, my Kia Optima mid-sized sedan averages between 31-32 mpg and my city/highway driving is about 50-50. Truth is, unless gasoline goes into the $4/gallon or higher range, I’ll keep driving my two completely paid for vehicles without much concern. YMMV (pun intended)
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Nothing bothers me unless I let it. Martin D18 Gibson J45 Gibson J15 Fender Copperburst Telecaster Squier CV 50 Stratocaster Squier CV 50 Telecaster |
#21
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It was fun to think of the big Buick wagon we had growing up when we did a big road trip with our kids. Today's vehicles are tremendous compared to state of the art in the earlier time.
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#22
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We are actually the perfect candidates for an EV since 90% of our trips are local and less than 25 miles total. But I still want the industry to mature a bit more before leaping in. The car we just bought (very likely our last given our age) was 100% conventional combustion, but state of the art otherwise. We really wanted AWD so that limited our options a bit. On a recent highway trip we got 34 mpg driving on interstate highways up to 80 mph posted speed limit and through mountains. Now that it is cold here, city mileage is about 24-25 for most short trips / cold engine, and ~30 mpg once the engine is warm.
Most hybrids run on the battery mostly, using a small gas engine to recharge the batteries when necessary. Some use gas primarily plus electric to boost performance when called for. It depends on the make and model. |
#23
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So in regards to the main aspect of this thread... How are the batteries of these hybrid and electric cars disposed of? Will we see some sort of environmental crisis as all these batteries come to needing to be replaced and disposed of? Tony
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“The guitar is a wonderful thing which is understood by few.” — Franz Schubert "Alexa, where's my stuff?" - Anxiously waiting... |
#24
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Edit: There are articles that will explain the battery life cycle and recycling better than I can here.
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ƃuoɹʍ llɐ ʇno əɯɐɔ ʇɐɥʇ |
#25
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Yep, that's what I've been looking for. Thanks, guys! |
#26
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- Tacoma ER22C - Tacoma CiC Chief - Tacoma EK36C (ancient cedar Little Jumbo, '01, #145/150) - Seagull SWS Maritime Mini Jumbo ('16) - Simon & Patrick Pro Folk Rosewood ('01) - Godin Montreal Premiere Supreme - Ibanez Mikro Bass |
#27
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My family fleet has been all-hybrid for two years and 50,000 miles, so I have some experience, all positive. Our 2014 Ford C-Max Hybrid gets a respectable 38 mpg in mostly urban commuting. My 2017 C-Max Energi has an oversized battery that plugs in to your house 110V tap to store about 20 miles of EV range in its battery. That makes all most local trips gas-free EV trips, but it also can be driven between 600-mile refuelings, so there's no operational compromises. This Energi model has given me 78 mpg so far.
Ford's hybrid's work just like the Prius, but with Ford's own hardware. The difference is better power (185-195 combined HP and a 8-sec. 0-60 time), a smoother and quieter ride (it's a 3200-3800 lb car) and better handling (I traded a GTI, and I don't miss it much). The Ford also has huge windows and headroom, and a more traditional dash interface of buttons and knobs. It's rarely necessary to use the touchscreen, and, most important to me, you can turn the whole distracting screen off. Ford also makes Fusion sedans in this drivetrain, but I don't think they're as useful, with less cargo room for your gigs. But better things are coming- the next Escape compact SUV will have hybrid options. New C-Maxes are almost gone. They've been discontinued, but new cars like this can be a better value than used ones. My car, loaded with options, listed around $36K. Ford's end of year discounts cut that to $30k, but Colorado's tax breaks for plug-in hybrids combined to federal credits to save a tidy $9007 from our tax bill. Check your own state for deals. I'm genuinely interested in lowering my carbon footprint, but I'm also happy that when I drive my car from breakfast to noon, I save enough gas money to buy lunch!
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- Tacoma ER22C - Tacoma CiC Chief - Tacoma EK36C (ancient cedar Little Jumbo, '01, #145/150) - Seagull SWS Maritime Mini Jumbo ('16) - Simon & Patrick Pro Folk Rosewood ('01) - Godin Montreal Premiere Supreme - Ibanez Mikro Bass Last edited by Birdbrain; 11-10-2019 at 11:44 PM. Reason: one more thought |
#28
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According to several references, including Bloomberg, EV batteries that are no longer suitable for auto use are repurposed to store energy in less critical, stationary applications. Their ingredients can also be recycled, and factories are being opened to do this.
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- Tacoma ER22C - Tacoma CiC Chief - Tacoma EK36C (ancient cedar Little Jumbo, '01, #145/150) - Seagull SWS Maritime Mini Jumbo ('16) - Simon & Patrick Pro Folk Rosewood ('01) - Godin Montreal Premiere Supreme - Ibanez Mikro Bass |
#29
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Usually, the series design yields better fuel efficiency and lower exhaust emissions. Most hybrids like the Toyota Prius and Honda Insight have a parallel drivetrain layout. The BMW i3 and Chevrolet Volt have the series drivetrain layout. |
#30
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One thing about fuel efficiency...
As your car's MPGs increase, the actual savings become smaller and smaller. That common miles per gallon figure is a ratio, so it's not additive. Consider a hundred-mile drive: you'd use five gallons in a 20 MPG car, four with 25 MPG, three with 33 mpg, and two at 50 MPG. To save another gallon and accomplish the trip with one, you have to double the MPGs to 100.
For this reason, once my car choice reaches 50 MPG, I stop thinking about further efficiency, and more about factors like range and performance and utility.
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- Tacoma ER22C - Tacoma CiC Chief - Tacoma EK36C (ancient cedar Little Jumbo, '01, #145/150) - Seagull SWS Maritime Mini Jumbo ('16) - Simon & Patrick Pro Folk Rosewood ('01) - Godin Montreal Premiere Supreme - Ibanez Mikro Bass |