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Old 11-09-2019, 06:24 PM
Kerbie Kerbie is offline
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Default Hybrid car engines

Are any of you guys knowledgeable about hybrid engines? I'm contemplating a small, hybrid SUV and I haven't found a salesman yet who knows much about how the gas engine and the electric motor work together. Thanks.
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Old 11-09-2019, 07:23 PM
jayhawk jayhawk is offline
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Well it depends on who is building it. For example, the Honda hybrid has some significant differences from Toyota. I would say the commonality of all of them is they link the two motors together through a planetary gear system.

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Old 11-09-2019, 07:34 PM
JonWint JonWint is offline
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Better to search on the specific make and model. Many have a motor/generator sandwiched between the engine and transmission.

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Old 11-09-2019, 07:39 PM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
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One thing that surprised me was the upside down mileage rating - higher in the city than on the freeway. The regenerative recapture of energy by braking makes up a significant portion of the efficiency, and you don't brake much on the highway. So any savings depends on your driving patterns.

We ended up with a Subaru Forester (non-hybrid) because the price didn't pencil out for me. The premium for the hybrid model would have a 7 year ROI given our typical use. Electric car battery packs (so far) usually only have an eight year functional life cycle before they need to be replaced, according to the IEEE journals that I regularly read. I figure the Institute of Electrical Engineers would know.

One thing our new car does is auto-stop when idling at a traffic light. That is very disconcerting, and cannot be permanently bypassed. We let it do its thing for the first full tank, and saved a whopping 0.22 gallons of fuel over nearly 400 miles of normal mixed driving. One of my questions to the salesman was whether there had been a history of Subaru's needing starters more often given all the extra starting cycles caused by this feature. He didn't have a good answer....
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Old 11-09-2019, 08:03 PM
VTexan VTexan is offline
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...but my Prius C has 179,000 miles on it and I have had no problems. And when I say no problems...I mean it.
I've gotten oil changes and a transmission service, but nothing has ever broken, I've replaced one 12-volt battery and of course tires. That's it.
I've had mostly Volvos and this Prius has been far less maintenance than my wonderful Volvos had.
I've been without a car payment for the last two years and weirdly, I've found other things I could spend that money on. I don't think it's possible to over-recommend a Prius.
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Old 11-09-2019, 08:22 PM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
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...but my Prius C has 179,000 miles on it and I have had no problems. And when I say no problems...I mean it.
I've gotten oil changes and a transmission service, but nothing has ever broken, I've replaced one 12-volt battery and of course tires. That's it.
I've had mostly Volvos and this Prius has been far less maintenance than my wonderful Volvos had.
I've been without a car payment for the last two years and weirdly, I've found other things I could spend that money on. I don't think it's possible to over-recommend a Prius.
I think there is just something about Toyotas. I purchased my 2000 Echo used in 2004 and am still driving it today. Other than batteries and tires, the only thing I have had done on it was a brake job at just over 160,000 miles (which to me, is normal maintenance). It still runs great. I have not had the experience of a car payment, but then I have never owned a new car. I buy what I can afford at the time. My Echo cost me about $5k cash back then. I get mid 40s for mileage on the highway and mid 30s in town.

My car is not a hybrid, but there is just something about Toyotas because your story and mine are not unique.

Tony
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Old 11-09-2019, 08:49 PM
Kerbie Kerbie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonWint View Post
Many have a motor/generator sandwiched between the engine and transmission.
One salesman told me Toyota had an inverter between the gas engine and the electric motor. I thought an inverter changed DC to AC, so I wasn't sure how it fit into the puzzle. He suggested the inverter controlled the sharing of duties between the engine and motor, but I wasn't sure how an inverter served that purpose.

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One thing that surprised me was the upside down mileage rating - higher in the city than on the freeway. The regenerative recapture of energy by braking makes up a significant portion of the efficiency, and you don't brake much on the highway. So any savings depends on your driving patterns.
I was also surprised by the "upside-down" mileage. After thinking about how the engine and motor worked, then that mileage made more sense. The regenerative braking seems to be pretty common on electric and hybrid models. Certainly an interesting concept and one I wasn't familiar with before looking into these vehicles.
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Old 11-10-2019, 07:07 AM
Merak Merak is offline
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I work with industrial automation and assume car technology is similar. AC power is created by the motor driven alternator then converted to DC, the DC is turned back to high frequency AC by the controller which optimizes the waveform for best performance.
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Old 11-10-2019, 07:10 AM
rokdog49 rokdog49 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeltrans View Post
I think there is just something about Toyotas. I purchased my 2000 Echo used in 2004 and am still driving it today. Other than batteries and tires, the only thing I have had done on it was a brake job at just over 160,000 miles (which to me, is normal maintenance). It still runs great. I have not had the experience of a car payment, but then I have never owned a new car. I buy what I can afford at the time. My Echo cost me about $5k cash back then. I get mid 40s for mileage on the highway and mid 30s in town.

My car is not a hybrid, but there is just something about Toyotas because your story and mine are not unique.

Tony
The same thing can be said for Honda’s. When I was on the road extensively, I drove Accords, five of them. Never drove one less than 130,000 miles. Never put a dime in any one except normal maintenance.
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Old 11-10-2019, 07:56 AM
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David Eastwood David Eastwood is offline
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Originally Posted by rokdog49 View Post
The same thing can be said for Honda’s. When I was on the road extensively, I drove Accords, five of them. Never drove one less than 130,000 miles. Never put a dime in any one except normal maintenance.
I think the same thing can be said for most modern vehicles - there are very few truly ‘bad’ cars out there these days. Engineering advancements are not exclusive to any particular maker, although both Toyota and Honda have well-deserved reputations for longevity, as does Subaru.

I put 110,000 miles on my Mazda 6, and my current MINI Cooper is sitting at 63,000 miles. I plan to keep it for at least that many more - little more than routine maintenance for either of them. My son drives a 2003 Honda Element with over 120,000 mile on it. He looks after it well, and expects it to last him a good while longer.
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Old 11-10-2019, 08:09 AM
Rodger Rodger is offline
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I had a 2006 Honda Civic hybrid. Just over 200,000 miles. Loved the car! The only major thing I replaced was the lithium battery. That was after about 10 years. Cost = $3,000. Kind of took all the gas savings away. If you plan to only keep the vehicle for about 5 years, probably a good savings possibility.

I recently bought a Honda HRV and gave the Civic to my son-in-law. It was an upgrade from his Civic hybrid. On his, the lithium power assist battery died and he couldn't afford the replacement cost. He is thrilled with mine! The HRV is getting about 32 mpg. Not the 45 I was getting, but the HRV has many positives that make it a great choice.

Caveat: power assist lithium battery replacement is costly if the plan is to keep the hybrid car long term. Without the power assist, the car can't get out of its own way.
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Old 11-10-2019, 08:09 AM
imwjl imwjl is offline
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It depends on the vehicle as has been said.

I've followed them and we were close to buying one, and there are and have been several of them where I work. A few associates and some in the company fleet have aged and worked out well.

The ones we looked at seriously are a different than the very common Prius cars but one was a bigger Toyota and the other a plug in hybrid Subaru.

My attention is toward BEVs now because I would like another 2-3 years before I make a vehicle purchase but I can say for sure that the hybrids I know from work and friends have been good. The goodness came from their being in mostly metro area driving and with enough annual mileage to make the payback obvious. The mostly Ford and Toyotas also had good trade value.

Two friends with Model 3 Teslas make a pretty good argument to consider those depending on the hybrid that interests you.
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Old 11-10-2019, 08:22 AM
Dr. Spivey Dr. Spivey is offline
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Kerbie, please consider that if you get a hybrid car, one day, you may smack yourself on the forehead and say "I could have had a V8". That's all I've got.
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Old 11-10-2019, 08:26 AM
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Yes, most all work differently based on manufacturers. It is true that the mileage is better in stop and go or slow traffic as most of the hybrids are set up to run on battery only in those situations so you are using no gas at all. I currently have a hybrid that runs on battery only until it is depleted and then switches to gas while at the same time recharging the battery with regenerative braking, coasting, and also a dedicated generator so it can be quite functional again during the same drive. Mine has a button to push that takes the battery completely out of the loop as well so that it is only being charged. For every 3-4 miles I drive, I get a mile of electric only built back up.

I will just add, depending on where you live, pure electrics have come a long way in the last few years in terms of range and driving comfort. I have been looking very closely at the Hyundai Kona EV which has a real world electric only range of 258 miles. At that point, it becomes a very viable option for a lot of people. Still not going to do a cross country trip with it though. I have a gas Kona right now for work and it is quite a nice little car with self driving and a lot of other features. The electric version is quicker, quieter and with that range, would work for me.
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Old 11-10-2019, 08:28 AM
VTexan VTexan is offline
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Default Every day I climb into my 48 MPG Prius

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Originally Posted by Dr. Spivey View Post
Kerbie, please consider that if you get a hybrid car, one day, you may smack yourself on the forehead and say "I could have had a V8". That's all I've got.
...I say "I could had a V8 but I decided to spend money on guitars instead of gasoline."

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