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Old 06-12-2020, 06:39 AM
Vaillant75 Vaillant75 is offline
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Default Recording Vocals

Hi everyone,

Already this section has been a gold mine of information regarding acoustic guitar recording. FYI My current set up is a pair of Gefell's into an Apogee, and using Reaper.

I'd like to record vocals alongside the guitar (for my own enjoyment, I am an amateur), and I have some questions about:

1/ The mic: I currently have the SM58, and my budget for potential replacement is ~$500 - would you stick to the SM58 or switch to something better?
2/ The placement in the room
3/ Any other tip that could be useful

I am aware that this topic has likely been addressed at length, so please don't hesitate to link me to another thread (could not find one in my quick search).

Thanks everyone!
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  #2  
Old 06-12-2020, 06:49 AM
YamahaGuy YamahaGuy is online now
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Get a $79 CAD (or similar) padded shield, a pop filter, and a decent large diaphragm condenser mic, like an Audio Technica 2020 or 2035, or similar. For under $250, you'll get way better results than with the 58.

https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Mic.../dp/B00GR9W1MS
https://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technic.../dp/B002T45X1G
https://www.amazon.com/Microphone-Fl.../dp/B06WVFRW4H

Bono supposedly used a 58 or beta 58 on all his vocals, BUT I'm sure his studio was equipped with $7000 preamps.
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Last edited by YamahaGuy; 06-12-2020 at 06:57 AM.
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Old 06-12-2020, 07:01 AM
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keith.rogers keith.rogers is offline
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Haven't heard your voice or recordings in your room, and both would factor into any mic recommendation I might think of.

With my old croaking, the SM58 actually works reasonably well. I have better mics, but I prefer it in an untreated space.
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Old 06-12-2020, 07:16 AM
Vaillant75 Vaillant75 is offline
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I should have been more accurate.

I would actually be recording my partner's vocals alongside my guitar playing. Here is a Iphone recording to give you an idea of her voice (please excuse the amateurism..): https://soundcloud.com/thomas-vailla...ll-cactus-tree
So any tip on about placement for 2 people would be helpful.

My room is untreated. I live in a relatively small flat in Paris so I can't make accomodate the space as I'd like...

Thanks for your input guys, really appreciated..
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Old 06-12-2020, 07:29 AM
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Mbroady Mbroady is offline
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SM58 can do wonders in a good sounding room
Look into something like this to improve room reflection. Not the ultimate fixer but it can make a big difference. Ultimately some sound absorption behind the mics would do wonders.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...YaAvBFEALw_wcB

Of you can make floor standing ones or wall hanging for cheep (but if you have a small place the reflection filter might be better)
https://www.acousticsinsider.com/bes...tic-absorbers/
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Old 06-12-2020, 07:38 AM
H165 H165 is offline
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Quote:
Get a $79 CAD (or similar) padded shield, a pop filter, and a decent large diaphragm condenser mic, like an Audio Technica 2020 or 2035, or similar. For under $250, you'll get way better results than with the 58.
I second this for vocals. There are too many decent condenser mics to list. Nady, Carvin, and a raft of importers make or made usable condensers. Yes, they vary, but there are also so many setup options in modern recording systems that small adjustments can be made for just about any mic signal to help get closer to the sound you like. For voice, condensers are usually better starting points than dynamics.

Quote:
So any tip on about placement for 2 people would be helpful.
Not clear here - above sounds like you want to add one vocal, here it sounds like two people singing together (?)
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Old 06-12-2020, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaillant75 View Post
I should have been more accurate.

I would actually be recording my partner's vocals alongside my guitar playing. Here is a Iphone recording to give you an idea of her voice (please excuse the amateurism..): https://soundcloud.com/thomas-vailla...ll-cactus-tree
So any tip on about placement for 2 people would be helpful.

My room is untreated. I live in a relatively small flat in Paris so I can't make accomodate the space as I'd like...

Thanks for your input guys, really appreciated..
There's a lot of "room" in that vocal, so the first mitigation is to get the mic closer to the singer, and then, in the mixing, add "space" (i.e., a complimentary, virtual one, vs uncontrolled room echo).

A good mic stand the singer can work close to and a pop filter, even with the SM58, would be a place to start. "Treatment" can be as simple as a heavy blanket/duvet hung where they have the most effect. Once you've optimized everything as best you can, then you can evaluate the recording to see if a mic change is going to improve what you've recorded.
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Old 06-12-2020, 07:50 AM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
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Almost any LDC and a pop filter is going to get you a better vocal sound. A SM58 is good where you aren't trying to feature the qualities that stand out for a good vocalist.

"Apogee" covers a lot of territory. Does your interface support 3 mics? If so, you should be able to easily accommodate a separate vocal.

Follow any of the recommended procedures for using your mic, including distance, avoiding plosives, orientation for the mic's polar pattern, and particularly placement and room treatment in whatever form you can do to avoid the sound of your recording space coming through while using a LDC.
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Old 06-12-2020, 08:32 AM
Vaillant75 Vaillant75 is offline
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Thanks for the guidance everyone. I will experiment a bit and will let you know of my progress.

AGF is really an amazing community!
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Old 06-12-2020, 09:02 AM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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I'd take a look at these mics as alternatives to the SM58:

Blue Microphones Bluebird
Audio-Technica AT4040
3U Audio Warbler
Aston Microphones Origin
ADK Microphones A6
Advanced Audio Microphones CM47fet

I've heard all of these at some point and they're all very good for the price point. I'd probably lean a little more towards the Bluebird for your vocalist. A friend of mine has one in his studio and it's gotten a lot of use on female vocalists with good results.
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Old 06-12-2020, 09:13 AM
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In that price range I favor the Rode NT1. There are two models, the less expensive NT1A and the re-engineered version, the NT1. Both are LDCs, both feature the lowest self noise in the music mic market, both need phantom power. We have both at the studio where I work. I typically prefer the NT1 with its smoother high end response but the sharper high-end of the NT1A is useful to add clarity to a muddy voice. Both are made in Australia.

All the best,

Bob
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Old 06-12-2020, 10:47 AM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaillant75 View Post
Here is a Iphone recording...
A bit of acoustic deadening would be good, of course, but that room ambience would probably sound nice if there was more voice and less room.

Is that just the one phone picking up both of you? How far from the phone were each of you? It sounds to me like you can solve a lot of it by just getting the two of you closer together and finding the right spot for the phone.

As a sidebar... is she French?
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Old 06-12-2020, 11:12 AM
lkingston lkingston is offline
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My favorite home recording vocal mic is the Shure SM7B. I use it with a FetHead because it is so low output. I like it because the pickup pattern is tight so it rejects most of the room ambience and noise. It also rejects a lot of your instrument if you are recording guitar and singing at the same time.

In a studio, a large diaphragm condenser is awesome, but at home, it picks up too much of the nasty home acoustics and noise.

On video I’ve started using a shotgun mic (a la Tiny Desk Concerts) in order to block the face less.
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Old 06-12-2020, 01:04 PM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
In that price range I favor the Rode NT1. There are two models, the less expensive NT1A and the re-engineered version, the NT1. Both are LDCs, both feature the lowest self noise in the music mic market, both need phantom power. We have both at the studio where I work. I typically prefer the NT1 with its smoother high end response but the sharper high-end of the NT1A is useful to add clarity to a muddy voice. Both are made in Australia.

All the best,

Bob
I second the Rode NT1 recommendation. If you are looking on the used market do be aware that the ORIGINAL NT-1 (sold before the NT1-A) has a slightly higher self-noise than the NT1-A or the (NEW) NT1.

It's a bit odd to go back to the original name for a new design with better specifications, but that's what Rode chose to do.

I have the original NT1 and it's still a fine LDC, even with the "higher"
self-noise.
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Old 06-14-2020, 07:24 AM
CASD57 CASD57 is offline
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I tried to use a Condenser... AKG 200 as a vocal mic but it picks up my guitar/room too much..
I've switched to a Se V7 Dynamic $99 .and it works great. With it's a tight pattern, but You will have a Mic in your face, so if your doing a video that will be something to think about..
I've heard great things about LeWitt MTP250 and 350 $79-$149

If your going into your computer:
Also I've moved from a Focusrite 2i2 3rd gen to a Mixer with a USB interface mainly because of the tone controls...more flexibility...built in FX..etc.,

But you can add FX to OBS through VST filters.. if you use OBS
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