Journey Advertising Their Nylon

[ac]

Just a thought about the Journey Nylon video:


The recorded "acoustic only" portion is just a very brief portion, but it was sufficient for me to feel I had a good idea how I would like the sound of the guitar in person.

It's important to keep in mind that the player, apparently a professional guitar player, played the Journey, with a 12.5 inch max width, against a much larger, concert level classical guitar. About the only thing they had in common was nylon strings.

The Journey sounded subdued in comparison. I expected this as soon as the video began, seeing the competition.

Yet, keeping in mind it went up against the "best", I noted the overall balance and tone was really pretty good. Very good. It was just quieter.

Hoping to hear better reports regarding quality issues, but for my needs, I think the Journey would be a great guitar.

I'd need to sell and downsize to make room first.

AC;

I also see some redeeming features in the Journey instrument. I don't see it as better than anything I have, but it does have a potential that I find interesting.

The projection of the travel guitar is quiet, as it is with most CF nylon string guitars. I suspect that part of the problem with the travel Journey is the mass required to remove and replace the neck. That mass could be a stifling influence.

I've thought about contacting Journey and ask if they have moved forward with plans for a non-removable neck on the nylon strung instrument. Journey has barely begun marketing the removable necked guitar so my question is probably premature.

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by EvanB

AC;

I also see some redeeming features in the Journey instrument. I don't see it as better than anything I have, but it does have a potential that I find interesting.

The projection of the travel guitar is quiet, as it is with most CF nylon string guitars. I suspect that part of the problem with the travel Journey is the mass required to remove and replace the neck. That mass could be a stifling influence.

I've thought about contacting Journey and ask if they have moved forward with plans for a non-removable neck on the nylon strung instrument. Journey has barely begun marketing the removable necked guitar so my question is probably premature.

They might introduce a non-collapsible nylon as they have a bolt on neck for the steel string carbon version, the RT660.

If I may add, you would think that the overbuilt mechanism for the removable neck hinders the tone of the OF660 but I'm not sure. I think it sounds great and I've never had a guitar with the diminished size of the OF660 "rumble" on my lap like it does, not even the RainSong parlor. I've not played the RT660 but probably doesn't matter anyway as it is a larger chamber and it wouldn't be a fair comparison.

All that said, you may be onto something. A simpler, lighter neck join may significantly enhance volume as RainSongs are notably loud (even the parlor) as compared to say the OF660.

Steel;

I think the rumble could be a good sign. I am certain that some CF maker will come up with a guitar that competes with the projection of a good wooden instrument.

The Rainsong Parlor nylon projects rather well for a small guitar, but again, not up to a good classical wood guitar. The Rainsong and Emerald X10 nylon are very close in projection. I just passed the Rainsong on to a local player, keeping the Emerald because while no better in projection than the Rainsong it is far superior ergonomically.

[btbliatout]

I've been wondering over the last day or so if the "problem" with projection is that the CF luthiers are all about not bracing the top...meaning it's gotta be thick enough to handle the tension, plus the "abuse" CF is supposed to be able to handle.

I'm no luthier and have never studied guitar physics, but common sense states that bracing for the top was added because the thin top couldn't work without it. Maybe a very thin layer of CF with bracing could get us closer to the projection of wooden guitars (which all having bracing to my knowledge).

I'm just a dumb classical student though, what do I know?

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by btbliatout

I'm no luthier and have never studied guitar physics, but common sense states that bracing for the top was added because the thin top couldn't work without it. Maybe a very thin layer of CF with bracing could get us closer to the projection of wooden guitars (which all having bracing to my knowledge).

Composite Acoustics made guitars, like my GX, with bracing. I have no idea whether the top is thinner than other CF makes, but the guitar certainly doesn't have any problem with projection.

[btbliatout]

Originally Posted by Chipotle

Composite Acoustics made guitars, like my GX, with bracing. I have no idea whether the top is thinner than other CF makes, but the guitar certainly doesn't have any problem with projection.

Forgive my lack of knowledge on CA's GX line. Is there a nylon model?

Steel strings seem to sing quite well and loudly on a solid, unbraced CF top. I don't think anyone has felt disappointed by the output of steel strings on CF. If you have a Composite Acoustic, CF nylon that outputs as much volume as an equivalent wooden classical or flamenco, PLEASE LINK IT! I'd probably jump on it.

bt;

You are not the only one. CA did not do a nylon string guitar. Unfortunately Joe's Ekoa model does not come in nylon and neither does the McPhereson. The Journey is the only (to my knowledge) new CF nylon on the market.

I've tried nylon strings on steel string CF guitars but got very little projection for the effort. Although, one member of this forum has reported success with nylon strings on a particular CF steel string guitar. Hopefully, that person might chime in and offer more detail.

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by btbliatout

Forgive my lack of knowledge on CA's GX line. Is there a nylon model?

Sorry, I wasn't paying attention to the fact that this thread was about nylon strings. My bad. That said, CA did use braces. How that would affect the projection of a nylon string guitar, I have no idea.

[Gitaman]

The recorded "acoustic only" portion is just a very brief portion, but it was sufficient for me to feel I had a good idea how I would like the sound of the guitar in person.

It's important to keep in mind that the player, apparently a professional guitar player, played the Journey, with a 12.5 inch max width, against a much larger, concert level classical guitar. About the only thing they had in common was nylon strings.

The Journey sounded subdued in comparison. I expected this as soon as the video began, seeing the competition.

Yet, keeping in mind it went up against the "best", I noted the overall balance and tone was really pretty good. Very good. It was just quiet.

AC,
I am with you on OC's tone. I find it very pleasing, especially the base side. It just does not jump out and sing like wood... It could be my ears... So, on Sunday when I have some time, I will see if I could remember how to upload sound and share sound clips of OC660 and Cordoba 3/4 size Cadette. They are about equal in size though Cadette is shorter scaled. They are in Spire format and shouldn't be too difficult.

I had a few days to play OC660 before returning and the guitar kinda grew on me: Not the most comfortable but you get used to the square shouldered neck. I could just change out the tuners. I tried breaking down and assembling without detuning and it seems ok. Still needed more fine-tuning than OF660. The best part was my wife would not know I have two Journeys since they look almost identical to untrained eyes.

By the way, if you feel the underside of the Journey CF soundboard, there are these Hershy Kiss chocolate like structures below where the strings are. I wonder if they function as braces. I hope I get to try out Blackbird Ryder some day.

Overall, I appreciate Journey people answering to the needs expressed by the customers and it should take no time to bring the quality issue up to par at least equal to OF660. I wonder if they could make a short-scale and rounder shouldered neck with built-in amplifier like Lava CFs. Now I am dreaming...

Gitaman;

I have not seen a Rider for sale in a long time. If you get your hands on one you will be surprised--the little sucker really sings. I could never get comfortable with it, even with a neck-up device. Of all the CF nylons I've played the Rider came the closest to the projection of a good classical nylon string guitar.

[Gitaman]

Originally Posted by EvanB

Gitaman;

I have not seen a Rider for sale in a long time. If you get your hands on one you will be surprised--the little sucker really sings. I could never get comfortable with it, even with a neck-up device. Of all the CF nylons I've played the Rider came the closest to the projection of a good classical nylon string guitar.

My GAS tends to flare up every now and then... and you are not helping! Seriously I put a lot of weight on your assessment especially with nylon-strung CFs, Evan, and as a temperary fix until CF sounboard could work with lighter tension, what do you think of built-in exciter complimenting CF nylon?

[mountainmaster]

Originally Posted by EvanB

Gitaman;

I have not seen a Rider for sale in a long time. If you get your hands on one you will be surprised--the little sucker really sings. I could never get comfortable with it, even with a neck-up device. Of all the CF nylons I've played the Rider came the closest to the projection of a good classical nylon string guitar.

When I was looking for a CF Nylon the videos of Chris Screven in which he played his Rider Nylon attracted my attention. For example...



By then the Riders were already out of production. I had my eye on what was probably the last one for sale here in Europe, but I hesitated too long and it was gone.

So I turned towards Emerald for my CF nylon needs.

Gitaman;

It sounds sort of sexy, but I've never tried an exciter and not sure what I think about the idea. Although, it almost seems like cheating and does get away from the prime challenge--a CF classical that competes with a wooden classical.

There are others on this forum who are more knowledgeable about nylon string guitars than I am--I'd be interested in their comments regarding an exciter; Tom 2, Cecil, and others

[AZLiberty]

Originally Posted by steelvibe

They might introduce a non-collapsible nylon as they have a bolt on neck for the steel string carbon version, the RT660.

The Roadtrip is also a slightly larger body.

I have no use for a disassembleable guitar at this point. Once they inevitably make a RT model I'll most likely order one.