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  #1  
Old 07-01-2020, 06:32 PM
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Default Journey Roadtrip Nylon

And so, my 10 nylon thread has been hacked by the newcomer, the Journey nylon strung guitar. Thought it might be time to give it its own thread.

The Journey CF guitars are interesting newcomers to the CF field. At half the price of the big TWO (Rainsong and Emerald), you almost have to take a look/listen. The nylon Journey has my full attention, with lots of reservations.

For example, I find it hard to believe that at half the price the Journey could come close to the products developed by Rainsong and Emerald research and development. That doesn't make it bad, but it raises questions of quality and sound.

While the Journey may dial in as a value for a smaller-priced CF guitar, it still comes at a price about 5 times what a competent wooden guitar might cost.

What it comes down to is a lot of questions. One way to get at those would be an old fashioned road trip like Michael used to sponsor for various CF makes.

Journey could offer a buy-in of $100, and start shipping the guitar to interested players. For instance, the Journey has already captured the interest of a number of forum members: Mountain, Casual, Steel, and me. I would guess others like Tom 2 and Cecil would also be interested in such a trip. And I know that Kramster never misses a road trip.

Journey could send the guitar to me to have a for week. I would then pay to ship the guitar on to the next auditor, and so forth. And at the end, the highest bidder could buy the well used instrument.

And then we'd have something to talk about. It would be a great focus group for Journey and the opportunity for forum members to try something new.
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  #2  
Old 07-01-2020, 07:36 PM
Gitaman Gitaman is offline
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Evan,
I am with you on having a carbon nylon that at least equals to wood. I have recorded OC660 on Spire and as soon as I figure out how to upload from SoundCloud, I will so you could make your own judgment. Spire for me makes everything sounds awesome except my voice and fish tank noise. And all guitars start to sound similar strangely to my ears.
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Old 07-01-2020, 07:57 PM
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Gitaman;

I look forward to your work and appreciate the effort. Thank you.
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  #4  
Old 07-01-2020, 11:18 PM
jdinco jdinco is offline
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I am interested in the Journey Nylon too, but wouldn't purchase one until they make one without the folding neck. I play my Cordoba a lot and love the tone, but I do find myself wishing it was a CF so I could take it with me more often.
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  #5  
Old 07-02-2020, 12:06 AM
Gitaman Gitaman is offline
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I cannot figure out SoundCloud and the only way I could think of is to provide the link below. If it works, I will put up Yamaha CGS102A version to compare with.


Spire Studio Project (67).m4a - SoundCloud - Listen to Spire Studio Project (67).m4a by h2o on #SoundCloud

https://soundcloud.com/user-57265003...project-67-m4a
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  #6  
Old 07-02-2020, 12:19 AM
Gitaman Gitaman is offline
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Here is the Yamaha 1/2 size CGS102A version through Spire. I am not at a level to be uploading music for others to listen. I just hope these clips give you guys a better idea how OC660 sounds especially compared to wood.


cgs102a one summer night.m4a - SoundCloud - Listen to cgs102a one summer night.m4a by h2o on #SoundCloud

https://soundcloud.com/user-57265003...er-night-m4a-1
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  #7  
Old 07-02-2020, 01:30 AM
steelvibe steelvibe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gitaman View Post
I cannot figure out SoundCloud and the only way I could think of is to provide the link below. If it works, I will put up Yamaha CGS102A version to compare with.


Spire Studio Project (67).m4a - SoundCloud - Listen to Spire Studio Project (67).m4a by h2o on #SoundCloud

https://soundcloud.com/user-57265003...project-67-m4a
Call me crazy- the OC660 sounded punchy and powerful against the Yamaha. It sounds great!
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  #8  
Old 07-02-2020, 06:44 AM
ac ac is offline
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The video on Journey's website has a short segment of the OC660 unplugged compared with a performance level classical guitar.

The OC660 to me is fairly balanced, nice sounding, could maybe use more power in the high E string.

For projection, you can listen and hear that it cannot compete with the wood classical. If you have even the slightest hope that the Journey will project like the Ramirez, you will be disappointed.

The same is true for the OF660 I own. It's good quality sound, balanced, even the high E is not bad. But it does not project as well as my past Emerald X7s did. It was noticeably quieter, but fine for my needs. Past videos comparing the Cargo with Emeralds were the same. Quieter, but with full, distinctive sound that is really nice. Personal preferences will win out in this battle.

Note:

The OC660 is full scale length, not 24.5 in like the OF660.

Build quality can be hit or miss I found. (At least as of a couple years ago--can't speak to what is currently being made).

Be sure to buy from a source that allows returns or replacements.

A couple years ago, I viewed several Journey's side-by-side in stock at a guitar store and noted a number of small quality issues immediately. Rough, unpolished frets, sloppy paint jobs, etc.

I had planned on getting a replacement for my OF660 because of a quality issue, but after viewing those in the store, I decided to keep mine. Mine was an original version and it was in near perfect condition in comparison to the ones in the store. The fact that it also had near perfect intonation, perfect fretwork, nice finish and playability, made me decide to hold on to and I'm very happy I did.

Journey does make near perfect guitars also, it's just less consistent than other builders (at least this was the case 2 years ago.)

Keep in mind my experience is somewhat dated. Journey may have revamped its quality control since then. Other builders periodically need to do the same as we've read more than once in this sub-forum.
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Old 07-02-2020, 12:22 PM
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Gitaman;

You're doing well and I like the recordings. I've always been fond of Cordoba instruments and believe that they give a lot of value for the dollar. In your recordings, I prefer the Cordoba--it seems to have a higher level of clarity. But that might just be me.

In any event, thank you for sounds.
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  #10  
Old 07-02-2020, 07:33 PM
Gitaman Gitaman is offline
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Steelvibe,

I am glad you find OC to be punchy and powerful. ( I love OF's dense tonal quality which I think is also the reason why it becomes buried when competing with other sounds. I could hear OF in OC. It also has a slightly honky D string like my OF in my opinion. ) Anyway, I have been wanting to try it one more time for the last two weeks with higher tension strings. It might spruce up the treble side and make 'em sing. I really want to have a worry-free OF/RT-like nylon and am starting to think, hmm, maybe, the paddle neck with a full scale wasn't so bad... after all, I did enjoy playing OC for hours and hours until the neck around the first fret was starting to shine just a touch... so I went up the neck and noodled some more to even it out

AC,

I agree Journey has had quality issues in the past, in fact, mine came with cracked string retainer. However, they have an improved retainer now which shows they care about the quality issues. My OF is not Emerald-pretty but is built like an... anvil, trust me, it even feels like one: Rock-solid, a little ungroomed maybe. I am sure they will work out the kinks in time and improve on their Carbon nylons. In fact, for me, if they make a better neck shape with 24.5" scale, I will buy.


EvanB,

Thank you for the kindly comment. I have spent a little over two years with this new hobby, enjoyed every moment of it and am grateful there exists such a wonderful instrument. My best friend, indeed!

Speaking of Cordoba, the Spire does not do justice, Cadette in person is much louder and livelier. Did I mention lighter as well?
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  #11  
Old 07-02-2020, 11:23 PM
casualmusic casualmusic is offline
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I'm waiting for a large carbon fibre guitar with a removable neck. Large enough to sound good playing bluegrass or pacing a campfire sing-along.


From Journey: the new wood GA size FF412 and FF422 have sold out. I'm hoping that this success will inform Journey about the market for a large carbon fibre travel guitar. (The compact RoadTrip guitar with bolt-on removable neck isn't large enough.)


From KLOS: their compact guitar (they call it full size) with bolt-on removable neck isn't large enough


From Enya: the new all carbon fibre X4 doesn't have a removable neck.


Dunno where the market for travel versions of carbon fibre guitars wil go given COVID reductions to air travel.


My interested in classical guitars tilts towards flamenco and mariachi; I'm in a favourable climate so wood may be OK.


Cheers.
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  #12  
Old 07-05-2020, 11:15 AM
Gitaman Gitaman is offline
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Size Spectrum of CF with nylon pales in comparison to that of CF steel for sure. May have something to do with not being able to drive the top when too big. However X30N has no problem. So who knows, one thing for sure, the removable neck weighs more than bolt on and will reduce volume and projection but contributes to unique tone character IMHO.

Anyways, I could not get OC660 out of my system and I figure I will never know if I don't try it, even if it is a second time. So I am officially an owner of both OF and OC660. I have been playing OC for the last two days and I have gotten used to the flat neck but the square shoulders still getting used to. I have heard Journey's response to the odd neck shape was that a lot of classical players love that shape. Intonation being careful not to press too hard was better than Cadette, rough fret ends still bother me and need to be filed smooth. One thing I forgot to mention is that OC is lighter than OF. The removable neck area is not as fortresses and there is no truss rod. The plug in hole is better positioned so that you could park OC plugged in and not worry about the floor. Strap button has more room than OF and not as precarious as OF: I have dropped OF more than once using a strap.

My wife says she needs me NOW. Happy wife, Happy Sunday, everyone!
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  #13  
Old 07-05-2020, 11:22 AM
Gitaman Gitaman is offline
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The new plug in position is out of the way for the classical position, probably the main reason for repositioning.
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  #14  
Old 07-05-2020, 01:12 PM
ac ac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gitaman View Post
. . . . rough fret ends still bother me and need to be filed smooth. . . .
Sorry to hear that that there are still fret issues two years after the one's I noticed on the in-stock Journeys I viewed. I was hoping that at least that issue would no longer exist since much time has passed. The fretwork I examined two years ago had issues worse than just rough edges.

I really love my Journey and the design and ergonomic features are just super and the whole package just works well. And I know Journey can build guitars with excellent fretwork as all the frets on the OF660 I purchased just over 5 years ago were decently smooth with no rough edges at all. No, they don't match the quality level of the mirror finish stainless frets Emerald produces, but mine are standard looking, well done frets.

I'm just not sure what happened to the production process between my purchase and now. IMO, fretwork and other quality concerns really needs to be addressed during the manufacturing process and stricter QC applied before release. I'm hoping that I'll hear good reports in the coming months. I wouldn't mind having an OC660 myself some day.
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