Get to know the artisans at Martin ad

[yukonkornelius]

I vote that it's PLENTY misleading. There is plenty that is done by machine. A person operating the machine doesn't make it handmade.

They are not 100% handmade. That isn't something that is debatable.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by Dave Hicks

Of course, even Martin uses CNC equipment in some of their operations:

https://www.woodworkingnetwork.com/p...289849311.html

Interesting article (from2015). I hand picked some quotes:

Martin now has eight Fryer/Siemens machines, utilizing one for the guitar maker’s tooling and machinery operations and seven for various other guitar production operations.

According to Fred Greene, chief product officer, the company produces between 50,000 and 60,000 guitars a year. Depending on the build, production can take anywhere from 8 weeks to six months. There are approximately 500 employees at Martin’s manufacturing facility.

On a daily basis at Martin, Kline says, he sees what is possible when CNC technology and craftsmanship work together.

“Without CNC technology, we’d be still carving out all our necks by hand, and that’s just not efficient enough to compete in today’s world,”

“Technology and craftsmanship go hand-in-hand. People are amazed by how much handwork still goes into our guitars. We’ll build a neck and a body and then assemble the two elements together, which makes that guitar come to life.”

[Rev Roy]

I. Don’t. Care. Handmade, partially handmade, cyborg made. Means little to me. The fine folks in Nazareth are producing lots of wonderful guitars that bring me great joy. Ultimately, that’s all I care about...

[Mbroady]

Originally Posted by Dave Hicks

Of course, even Martin uses CNC equipment in some of their operations:

Not to many shops, large or small that don’t have some kind of computer automation. I wonder if there are guitars made that never touch a hand until they come of the assembly line.

[FreDrummer]

Sure, they’re a large operation, turning out 50,000-60,000 guitars a year. That is NOT going to happen with solitary luthiers sitting at their workstation putting out a handful of guitars per year.

I saw a Chris Martin interview (I think it was on the Sweetwater site, so, yes, it’s essentially an advertisement). I was impressed. I came away with the impression that, no, their not hiring tons of trained luthiers. They’re hiring local people with mechanical aptitude, then they figure out where they will fit best. “Jason” may absolutely suck at gluing up a back and sides, but put a chisel in his hand and he can make the finest scalloped braces with the best of them. Don’t let “Jen” anywhere near a chisel, but her rosette and inlay work is fabulous. And on and on. Each can accomplish their assigned task quickly and efficiently because that is ALL they do.

In a way, an individual builder, OTOH, has to be a jack-of-all trades. Building an acoustic guitar involves a number of precise, intricate steps. There are builders who, after decades of experience, DO become masters of all these processes. But it takes time. I think Martin’s (and likely Taylor’s and Gibson’s) method of matching people to their skill set to mass produce quality guitars makes sense.

CNC? If you need to produce 15,000 of a particular neck shape and want any kind of consistency, CNC iS the ONLY way to go.

If one needs a certain, specific set of specs, there is the custom-ordered Custom
Shop offerings, with price tags to match the individual/small builders.

[zoopeda]

Originally Posted by yukonkornelius

I vote that it's PLENTY misleading. There is plenty that is done by machine. A person operating the machine doesn't make it handmade.

They are not 100% handmade. That isn't something that is debatable.

Oh, good grief. Go tour the factory, and report back how many people you count handling and crafting guitar parts.

Also, did they claim the guitars are “100% handmade?” I missed that. Seems like they’re about 95% handmade. I’d call that just “handmade.” (Do you fall your luthier friends hypocrites for using drills and table saws?). Hair splitting at its finest...

[Tico]

"Hand made by people, and one of those people is Rachel", would be more accurate but doesn't have the same ring.

Marketing is all about ring, not accuracy.

Personally I hate marketing, and love accuracy.
But businesses exist to make maximum profit, and there are way more customers who respond to ring than accuracy.

[mercy]

Personally I dont care if a machine made the whole guitar and a human never touched it. Its not a matter of CNC or not, its the ad that bothers me. This is an opinion forum with little facts. We get to discuss our ideas and I thank the platform for that. You can say you disagree with me entirely and thats ok cause thats your opinion and I take that into consideration. There have been times that Ive read opines and changed my opinion about things. We are a nation that values free speech and Im glad we can have at least some measure of that without getting nasty. Thank you all for that, you have been most kind to observe and comment so I can get your opinion. My best friend dont always agree but we still are best friends, and for 40 yrs now.

[LeftyKev]

It's just marketing, I wouldn't look into it too much.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by LeftyKev

It's just marketing, I wouldn't look into it too much.

I agree. Yes, it is misleading and I'm not sure it would be allowed in the UK where we have high standards of "legal, decent and truthful" ads and even then we get some crap marketing.

(Mercifully - we don't get ads for prescription meds here - you get what your GP decides from what is available to the NHS in your area).

C.F.Martin is a high volume production operation, and yes they have a "custom shop" - however, if a process can be done by a machine and you have that machine, it would seem sensible to use that machine.

We know that Martin employs a fair number of people - (that's nice) and some of their operations are very skilled, and many are a matter of assembly or machine operation.

It is an assembly line process - it has to be. I doubt that there is hand carving of tops - top tapping etc., Like Bruce Van Wart does at Collings (apart from, possibly, in the Custom shop).

At the top of this page is exactly that ad, and there is a series of similar ads.

It IS misleading. Martin is an HVP operation and they are trying to say that they are more "personal" than, say, Eastman, and ...that...not ...might ...be ..true.

Martin seeks to cover all price points of the market - that's a tall order, but they can and do produce some great instruments -at least from, maybe the standard series up.

[pegleghowell]

Martin makes a good guitar,that`s all I care about.

[Silurian]

For me, handmade has to mean that the tree was felled with an axe rather than a chainsaw or one of those mega logging machines.

[geoawelch]

Originally Posted by zoopeda

Oh, good grief. Go tour the factory, and report back how many people you count handling and crafting guitar parts...

I agree wholeheartedly. The only purpose of this thread is to create an argument.

[Steev]

I heard that it's a condition of employment at Martin that you change your name to Rachel.

All the machines have the same nickname too...

[zoopeda]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

I agree. Yes, it is misleading and I'm not sure it would be allowed in the UK where we have high standards of "legal, decent and truthful" ads and even then we get some crap marketing.

(Mercifully - we don't get ads for prescription meds here - you get what your GP decides from what is available to the NHS in your area).

C.F.Martin is a high volume production operation, and yes they have a "custom shop" - however, if a process can be done by a machine and you have that machine, it would seem sensible to use that machine.

We know that Martin employs a fair number of people - (that's nice) and some of their operations are very skilled, and many are a matter of assembly or machine operation.

It is an assembly line process - it has to be. I doubt that there is hand carving of tops - top tapping etc., Like Bruce Van Wart does at Collings (apart from, possibly, in the Custom shop).

At the top of this page is exactly that ad, and there is a series of similar ads.

It IS misleading. Martin is an HVP operation and they are trying to say that they are more "personal" than, say, Eastman, and ...that...not ...might ...be ..true.

Martin seeks to cover all price points of the market - that's a tall order, but they can and do produce some great instruments -at least from, maybe the standard series up.

This is incorrect. If you actually go to the factory (something I doubt you’ve done), it’s very clearly not set up in an assembly line like, say, an auto plant. There are stations where craftspeople are performing various degrees of skilled labor at different stages of guitar building. I have a friend who works on their “assembly line” and he attests they encourage each employee to move around the factory to master each station over time, until one knows how to build the guitar start to finish. That’s a lot different from the “assembly line” model you suggest, where Rachel sits there and polishes door knobs all day.

It’s also incorrect that Martin doesn’t hand carve their bracing. It’s true their straight bracing comes off the CNC, but even on sub Authentic and custom guitars like the GE and MD series, they hand scallop them. You can actually watch them doing this, outside the custom shop area, on the production floor when you visit the factory.

I know you’re keen on Collings, and I think that’s swell. But I’ll remind you that while “Donna” and folks like her are hand fitting traditional compound dovetail neck joints on standards series Martins and up, Collings is bolting their necks on to save on labor. The deception that bothers me is that someone Collings is a small boutique luthier. They are very much a factory setup (like Santa Cruz) at lower production numbers than Martin. They now produce well over 1000 guitars per year. Do you think Bill was making those all by himself? At least CFM refers to his operation as a “factory.”

Just to be clear, here’s the ad folks are up in arms about—the one that lists a whole bunch of little bios about each person and which part of the factory they’re in. Courtney says, “One thing she wants all Martin owners to know is just how many hands touch and care for their guitar and how seriously each person takes his or her step in the process...”. Nothing about that screams “Courtney built your entire Martin from scratch.”

https://www.martinguitar.com/handmad...dmade%20rachel