micing vs plugging in

[HOF dad]

I just got my first amp - loudbox mini - and it's great. I'm finding out (at least for me) there's some difference playing with an amp as opposed to without.
I can be more subtle in my attack and actually have to dial it back some.
This new direction has me wondering how does playing into a mic vs direct plug in compare?
I would guess you might get a more true sound from the guitar but that's just a guess.
What are the pros and cons and is it worth it?
Could I mic right into the amp? What type / price range of mic makes sense.
This could be one of those rabbit holes I've read about.

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by HOF dad

I just got my first amp - loudbox mini - and it's great. I'm finding out (at least for me) there's some difference playing with an amp as opposed to without.
I can be more subtle in my attack and actually have to dial it back some.
This new direction has me wondering how does playing into a mic vs direct plug in compare?
I would guess you might get a more true sound from the guitar but that's just a guess.
What are the pros and cons and is it worth it?
Could I mic right into the amp? What type / price range of mic makes sense.
This could be one of those rabbit holes I've read about.

If there is no audience involved, then you can have complete control on a microphone by moving closer and further back, etc.

If there is an audience and they're just there, despite your presence, well then just plug in and do battle.

You can vary your dynamics plugged in directly, and certain systems are better than others at conveying your intended subtleties, attacks, etc, but nothing beats a mic and an audience that paid to hear what you've got to say.

Then you can use a mic to its best extent.

The depth of the rabbit hole depends on way too many things, and if you're asking, then you should probably avoid it. Just get a good Shure SM58 and get used to working on either source.

The cheshire cat's smile is very seductive........

HE

[Skip Ellis]

+1 for the mic - putting a pickup in a guitar turns it into an electric guitar. JMHO

[philjs]

Buy a ToneDexter. Mic your guitar once then plug in ever after and sound like you mic'd your guitar...

Phil

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by philjs

Buy a ToneDexter. Mic your guitar once then plug in ever after and sound like you mic'd your guitar...

Phil

To be fair, ToneDexter can lead you down a "rabbit hole" where you are experimenting with different mics and miking positions to get the most flattering WaveMap possible. On the other hand, you may find a very flattering miking position which would be impractical or impossible to use in a live setting. In that case, ToneDexter may well give you better results than live miking.

On thing is for sure - its easier to sit still for a couple of minutes to create a ToneDexter WaveMap than it is to sit still in front of a mic for an entire live set. In the case of folks who like to move around a bit while performing, ToneDexter is a no-brainer.

[Murphy Slaw]

I prefer a true acoustic sound.

Give me microphones over gadgets.

I use an SM57 on my guitars, mandolin and resonator. No pedalboard, no loopers, no nonsense....

[Nymuso]

Originally Posted by Murphy Slaw

I prefer a true acoustic sound.

Give me microphones over gadgets.

)

I don’t disagree but it is not always the most practical solution.

If you’re recording or playing to a well behaved attentive audience, yes the mic is going to give you the best sound and the SM-57 is the way to go. If, however, you are in a situation in which you are not given undivided attention, i.e., a bar or most restaurants, or if you are playing in a band, you need an on-board pick up of some sort.

There is more, much more to the use of each, with many variables to consider.

[Irish Pennant]

I have blue collar gear, Takamine guitars, I prefer to plug in my guitars. Not one person in any of the venues I've played at has ever complained that my acoustic guitar was plugged in.

I've been working on playing Breath by Pink Floyd, I added a modulation pedal to the front end of my pedal board and a mic for my guitar. The mic adds an acoustic blend to the modulation effect, it balances the tones nicely. I played it for the first time in front of an audience this last Thursday and it was well received.

For me, plug/unplugged doesn't matter, I do both, and now sometimes at the same time. I will also sometimes use a looper, a pic, a capo, an alt tuning, a vocal pedal. I like tools.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by HOF dad

…This new direction has me wondering how does playing into a mic vs direct plug in compare?

Hi HOF dad
Sounds like you need to do some experimenting with your guitar in your settings and see what works best for you.

Using only a mic is great - unless you are playing acoustic in an aggressive contemporary band, because you will never be heard. Or if you are playing in a noisy venue (think restaurant/bar).

For me the decision was do I want my guitar to sound the most natural I can, or do I want my guitar and all the nuances I've worked on the be heard.

I play in our church band which probably operates at it's loudest at 90-95db, and I promise if I tried to play in that setting with just a mic, I'd just be stage decoration.

By using a dual source pickup rig with pickup and mic (which I've used now for nearly 20 years), and then aiming my acoustic amp back up at me from low and in front about 4 feet, I can operate without having the do the in-ear monitors. This sounds so much better than just a pickup, and I can develop the volume to play in a band setting.

On days I don't have my amp along, then I go over-the-head cans (headphones) so I can turn my acoustic up from my direct feed from the preamp to the board and I stay more relaxed as I play and just trust the techs to keep me up in the mix. I often use a feedback buster (big black rubber plug) to keep it from feeding back, and it sounds great in the mix.

Sounds like you still need to do some experimenting with your guitar in your settings and see what works best for you…not what works best for us.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by Murphy Slaw

I prefer a true acoustic sound.

Give me microphones over gadgets.

I use an SM57 on my guitars, mandolin and resonator. No pedalboard, no loopers, no nonsense....

"True acoustic sound" would be without amplification. Every section of an amplification chain colors the sound to some extent. That's certainly true of a Shure SM57 mic. With or without a proximity effect from close miking, the bass end response drops off considerably below 200 Hz. The lowest pitch on a standard tuned guitar in concert pitch is the 'E' pitch at 82.41 Hz. If one is close miking the guitar with an SM57 and rolling off the bass at the mixer to eliminate the muddiness at 200Hz. the low bass gets cut down to way below what would be present with true acoustic sound.

If, on the other hand, you are miking at a distance which eliminates the proximity effect, the SM57's response at 82.41 Hz will be about 6db less than its response at 200Hz. (200Hz is close to the fundamental frequency of the open third string 'G'). That's still not anywhere close to "true acoustic sound".

http://blog.shure.com/how-to-read-a-...esponse-chart/


If your end goal is "true acoustic sound", a Shure SM81 mic will get you much closer to it with a standard tuned guitar.

https://www.shure.com.cn/dmsfiles/de...sm81_specsheet

[J Patrick]

...as others have indicated it’s all about context...the playing environment dictates what works best..a small intimate setting with a listening audience is the perfect scenario for a mic only approach...(although adding a touch of pickup can give your sound a little something extra)....

...and of course loud ensemble situations in noisy environments are the place to go with your pickup....what’s most important is to have a good feel for whatever situation you find yourself in and know how to work your setup to maximum advantage....so practice with all the setups you are likely to perform with...going into new situations without a practiced approach to sound reinforcement is almost always a bummer....

[varmonter]

Originally Posted by J Patrick

...as others have indicated it’s all about context...the playing environment dictates what works best..a small intimate setting with a listening audience is the perfect scenario for a mic only approach...(although adding a touch of pickup can give your sound a little something extra)....

...and of course loud ensemble situations in noisy environments are the place to go with your pickup....what’s most important is to have a good feel for whatever situation you find yourself in and know how to work your setup to maximum advantage....so practice with all the setups you are likely to perform with...going into new situations without a practiced approach to sound reinforcement is almost always a bummer....

This... I seldom use a mic anymore, Although
i would prefer to...all my effects and gizmos are used plugged
in. And most (not all) places i play are louder than a mic
would allow. That being said the places that are quiet enough
to use a mic the guitar sounds great. I use a shure sm81.
And some clubs i use a mic and the pickup.

[M Hayden]

As others have noted, mic vs pickup is circumstantial. If the setting is old with background noise, wind, talking, etc, plugging in is often a practical solution. If you have a nice quiet listening room environment, mics are great. The more adaptable a musician is, the more likely it is that they’ll get asked to play more gigs.....

[phcorrigan]

IMO, the "best" acoustic guitar sound is un-plugged and un-mic'd. Of course, you need a small room with good acoustics and a quiet group of listeners for that, so in a performance situation it's usually not practical.

When you mic a guitar, the position of the mic makes a difference. If you mic at the 12th fret you'll get one sound, at the sound hole another, and at the bridge another.

Anytime you use a pickup you get a different sound than you would from a mic or un-amplified. Some pickups will give you a sound closer to your "true" acoustic sound (see above) than others.

For me, the closest I've been able to come to a consistent, "true" amplified sound from my HD-28V when performing on stage is with bridge-plate pickup (K&K Pure Mini) and a ToneDexter. It's not perfect, but it is better than the pickup alone and is not dependent on a sound tech's idea of where a guitar mic should be placed or what kind of mic is being used.

[gfirob]

+ 1 to the point that context means a lot. If you just play two or three songs sitting down in a quiet room, the a microphone is pretty functional. But if you play a two hour set and you are standing up and changing guitars, then the Tonedexter is your best friend, IMHO. If you can play comfortably and ably for a full set with a microphone (and of course many do) well, God bless you for your abilities, but that ain't me. I am a pretty rabid Tondexter fanboy because it solved a number of problems for me. As for the Tonedexter rabbit hole, you have option of changing mikes and changing mike positions and making a million wave maps if you want (if you are a rabbit hole kind of obsessive) or you can make the wave maps you need and go on with your life it is your choice.