How a PLEK works

[mtdmind]

This has been on the internet for a while and I apologize to those who have already seen it. It's new to me and I found it fascinating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvUm0KbeO-E

[jnidoh]

mtdmind, new to me too and found it very interesting.

Thanks for posting.

john

[srick]

Richard Hoover has an interesting video about the PLEK here:



I'd love to play around with one of these beasts!

best,

Rick

[birdsong]

Fascinating physics and geometry....... my 3rd time watching!

J

[FLRon]

I wouldn't hesitate to place my D-21 on that machine. My Larrivee C-10 either for that matter. I think it's just amazing technology.

[HFox]

My 2016 1934 D with 45 style appointments was an early Pleck while being built.
I have had all my SCGC preowned sent back to the shop and they have been Plecked.
I believe that ALL new SCGC instruments have been Plecked for the last 5 years or so.
The Video shows why SCGC is the leader in lutherie for small Custom builders.... IMHO

[M Sarad]

I had a guitar modified by the Plek machine. It was a rather expensive crown and polish. It lowered the fret height terribly. I had the guitar refretted to make it playable.

[tubeamps]

I’ve had 2 guitars Pleked by the shop in the first video, Collings I35 LC and a Boucher OM.

The Boucher was new so I didn’t expect anything special and didn’t notice any difference in playability.

The Collings was 6 years old and had been gigged regularly. The Plek job was immediately noticeable, simply great, the best $235 I’ve spent on a guitar.

[mirwa]

Computer controlled (cnc) manufacturing of bridges are cheaper than hand made bridges

Cnc manufactured guitars are cheaper than hand made guitars

Cnc machined anything in general is cheaper than by human hand.

Why does plek cost more than a standard fret level and setup by a factor of double the cost. Its a slick well advertised product to convince the public to buck the normal trend of paying less for a job done by a computer than by a human being.

It replicates the skill set of the human hands, are there really that many incompetent people setting guitars up that justifys the existence of these machines

Steve

[tubeamps]

Originally Posted by mirwa

Computer controlled (cnc) manufacturing of bridges are cheaper than hand made bridges

Cnc manufactured guitars are cheaper than hand made guitars

Cnc machined anything in general is cheaper than by human hand.

Why does plek cost more than a standard fret level and setup by a factor of double the cost. Its a slick well advertised product to convince the public to buck the normal trend of paying less for a job done by a computer than by a human being.

It replicates the skill set of the human hands, are there really that many incompetent people setting guitars up that justifys the existence of these machines

Steve

There is quite a bit of manual labor involved in final fret dressing, this is not a process where you push a button and get a finished product.

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by tubeamps

IÂ’ve had 2 guitars Pleked by the shop in the first video, Collings I35 LC and a Boucher OM.

The Boucher was new so I didnÂ’t expect anything special and didnÂ’t notice any difference in playability.

The Collings was 6 years old and had been gigged regularly. The Plek job was immediately noticeable, simply great, the best $235 IÂ’ve spent on a guitar.

I can believe that.

Originally Posted by M Sarad

I had a guitar modified by the Plek machine. It was a rather expensive crown and polish. It lowered the fret height terribly. I had the guitar refretted to make it playable.

I can believe that too!

Originally Posted by mirwa

Computer controlled (cnc) manufacturing of bridges are cheaper than hand made bridges

Cnc manufactured guitars are cheaper than hand made guitars

Cnc machined anything in general is cheaper than by human hand.

Why does plek cost more than a standard fret level and setup by a factor of double the cost. Its a slick well advertised product to convince the public to buck the normal trend of paying less for a job done by a computer than by a human being.

It replicates the skill set of the human hands, are there really that many incompetent people setting guitars up that justifys the existence of these machines

Steve

And I can see where you are coming from.

I saw a big difference between the two videos. In the Righteous Guitars video the machine was being used to do a check on the set-up, and a fret level and recrown where required. Basically, on the instrument shown in the video the machine showed that the nut was high (although they had just installed a new nut) and the truss rod needed a tweek, and that a fret level in the upper frets would be desirable. All of this could be spotted by good tech.

It would be all too easy to put an already built guitar into the PLEK, put in the wrong information, and end up with overly low frets. Simply because there are so many variables. Basically, Righteous Guitars are using the machine to correct, or try and make the best of, previous building and set-up mistakes ("mistakes" is probably the wrong word but I can't think of another at present). However, if the input data is good then the machine should do a good job - and certainly in less time than a tech.

In the Santa Cruz video the machine is embedded within the guitar building process. The fretboard is being shaped on the PLEK prior to fret installation (very significant to the overall result), then the frets levelled and crowned. It is a very different use of the PLEK technology to Righteous Guitars. As Richard Hoover says, the machine is saving luthier's from RSI as well as giving great results quicker. Now I can believe this. I spent around 8 years doing pretty much daily set ups, including cutting new nuts, fret levels/crown/polish and saddle shaping. It took a huge toll on my arms, elbows and hands and so overall mental health, and was a significant factor in giving up the business. I think the way that Santa Cruz is using the PLEK machine is making the best use of the technology to the fullest. It is not a gimmick in this instance but the correct placement of CNC within their overall product production.

This got me interested in how Martin use the PLEK technology as they have a bank of machines and use PLEK within their advertising. Well, they are just using is for a fret level and crown - not to shape the fretboards. So I wouldn't expect their results to be as good as Santa Cruz. If you look at this article from the NYT you can see at sections 15, 16 and 19 that the fretboards are fretted before being glued to the necks and the PLEK is simply used for fret levelling and crowning.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/28/m...r-factory.html

Acoustic guitars generally have higher string tensions and higher actions than electric guitars, and this in itself gives a little more leeway for fretboard and fret imperfections. So, personally, wouldn't feel the need to put my instruments through a PLEK as I don't need a super low action and, in any case, it is more likely the fretboard geometry that is the limiting factor on my guitars (rather than just a fret level, which I can identify and do myself).

However, if I was going to buy an expensive guitar then the way that Santa Cruz is using this technology would certainly be on the plus side for me. Whereas I'm not so convinced by Martin's use as it doesn't address the machine's primary ability to profile fretboards.

I await to be shot down in flames!!!!!!

[captain_jack]

Originally Posted by mirwa

Computer controlled (cnc) manufacturing of bridges are cheaper than hand made bridges

Cnc manufactured guitars are cheaper than hand made guitars

Cnc machined anything in general is cheaper than by human hand.

Why does plek cost more than a standard fret level and setup by a factor of double the cost. Its a slick well advertised product to convince the public to buck the normal trend of paying less for a job done by a computer than by a human being.

It replicates the skill set of the human hands, are there really that many incompetent people setting guitars up that justifys the existence of these machines

Steve

The Righteous video says the same thing, that the Plek machine is just a tool and requires a skilled operator to do a good job. So it's not surprising that the results of a Plek job can be good or bad, as others noted about their experiences. Being that the machine is like a very accurate set of hands, I would guess that when used well, it can provide a more accurate fret job than can be done by hand. (sort of like a surgeon using a laser or robotic tools when performing surgery). As such my guess for the higher cost is twofold:

- it is being sold as better than if done by hand (which can be true, but isn't guaranteed) so priced at a premium

- the machine itself is likely very expensive so any shops using one need to be able to recoup that cost

[tadol]

Excellent videos, and great observations - what isn’t as obvious, the PLEK was originally designed to work in the way Martin, and other factories, are using it. Richard Hoover at Santa Cruz recognized the potential for the machine, and brought one into their shop early on, primarily as a way to reduce possible employee injuries from their very labor intensive processes. But they quickly saw limitations in the software, and in the processes, and worked very closely with the developers to refine the machine and the software so it was possible to do the quality of work they demanded. Those improvements, and the modifications to the equipment, are now available to anyone who buys a PLEK unit.

And I’m very glad of the emphasis that the skill and knowledge of the operator is tantamount - that was always the most critical component, and many of the early (and possibly continuing) problems with PLEK work has exactly to do with operator error, which is really no different than getting a set-up from any other tech - if they don’t really understand what they’re doing, then you’re gonna get a poor job done.

[Pura Vida]

That's an insightful video. I've been thinking about taking one of my guitars to get scanned and/or plea'd, if I can find someone in the Sacramento area. I'm mostly curious to see how my professionally or factory setup guitars stack up against a Plek scan.

[_zedagive]

I bought my CM from Righteous Guitars and it had already been pleked. I didn't know what that was at the time and was a little reluctant, thinking it was done to correct a problem. Obviously not the case, and am appreciative how much extra service they provide.

BTW, I was super happy with the price and the excellent interactions I had with the guys there. Would highly recommend them if you're looking for a new instrument.