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  #1  
Old 10-02-2020, 05:16 PM
LakewoodM32Fan LakewoodM32Fan is offline
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Default Help requested: Are recent Santa Cruz OM saddles glued in?

Hi All,

At my last re-stringing of my SCGC OM (2019) I decided to try and remove the saddle (normal drop in saddle, not a cut-through saddle) to sand about 1/32" off the bottom to lower action. The neck relief is just about perfect and I wanted to lower the overall action about 1/64". Unlike most of my other drop in saddles, this one would not pull out even with a little force. I didn't want to apply too much, as most of the other saddles I've removed came out relatively easily. It's also slightly tilted back (away from the headstock) which I understand is normal for SCGC nowadays.

It could just be a really tight fit, but I didn't want to risk using too much force if it's glued in, and possibly do damage.

Does anyone who owns a recent SCGC, or is a luthier, know if their saddles are glued in?
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  #2  
Old 10-02-2020, 06:03 PM
phavriluk phavriluk is offline
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Default a thought

Be nice to know if this instrument has been owned by OP since new, or if there were others who had possession of it. Chain of custody. And it's late now on a Friday afternoon in California, so any inquiry to the manufacturer will wait on Monday to arrive.

I think OP will get the most definitive answer on this question from the mother ship itself.
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  #3  
Old 10-02-2020, 06:32 PM
LakewoodM32Fan LakewoodM32Fan is offline
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Purchased brand new. Official SCGC dealer, so I have no reason to doubt they'd done anything odd with it. Plenty of saddle there, so I don't think they removed it to do any work with it either.
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Old 10-02-2020, 09:24 PM
lar lar is offline
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Is it possible that the guitar is a bit on the wet side, causing the bridge to squeeze the saddle tightly (and also raise the action making you want to lower it)? If that is the case you could lower the humidity for a few days and try again.

I always make my saddles relatively loose at standard humidity (45%) for this reason.

If I were you I'd just call SC and see what they say. I would find it hard to believe that they glue saddles, but then I find a lot of things hard to believe.
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Old 10-02-2020, 10:32 PM
LakewoodM32Fan LakewoodM32Fan is offline
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If no one has the answer I can call/email next week. Just thought I'd start here. Humidity is not a problem, it's between 45-55 in my home (hygrometer confirmed) and it's actually been on the dry side these past few weeks, so closer to 45.
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Old 10-02-2020, 11:49 PM
M Hayden M Hayden is offline
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Unless it’s a long saddle, it wouldn’t have been glued in by the Mothership.

Chances are good that it’s just snug. Use a pair of needlenose and it should gently come out.

And yes, the new ones do have an angled saddle - apparently it helps with intonation as the height increases and decreases, and is structurally stronger as well. My 00-29 does and it hasn’t proven an issue.
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Old 10-03-2020, 05:13 AM
fregly fregly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lar View Post
Is it possible that the guitar is a bit on the wet side, causing the bridge to squeeze the saddle tightly (and also raise the action making you want to lower it)? If that is the case you could lower the humidity for a few days and try again.

I always make my saddles relatively loose at standard humidity (45%) for this reason.

If I were you I'd just call SC and see what they say. I would find it hard to believe that they glue saddles, but then I find a lot of things hard to believe.
Yes, you can also get a cracked bridge from this.
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  #8  
Old 10-03-2020, 09:36 PM
tadol tadol is offline
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Santa Cruz does not glue in saddles - but they are (and should be) snug, so they will not drop out. You will need a plier, or some blunted end nippers, to grab it and give it a pull. Humidity can cause the saddle to get a bit snugger, but it will take a lot of humidity to swell an ebony bridge very much. And newer Santa Cruz saddles a have a slight back slant, about 95d off the top I think? So be careful removing it - do not grab it too hard ( you can break bone with pliers pretty easily ) and pull very gently up and back towards the pins. If you do feel the need, sand a face of the saddle just a tiny bit - if the fit gets too loose, it does not do as good a job transferring the energy from the strings into the top -
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  #9  
Old 10-21-2020, 10:32 PM
LakewoodM32Fan LakewoodM32Fan is offline
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Default Update

It was just jammed in there pretty good. Some decent force with needle nose pliers, working on one side then the other, and it eventually came out.

Since the neck relief was pretty much perfect (used feeler gauges per SCGC's recommended relief settings, as well as eyeballing down the neck), but the action was still closer to 1/8" than 3/32" for the low E at the 12th fret, I decided I'd take about 3/64" evenly off the saddle to result in 1.5/64" lowering of the action. Used digital vernier calipers to mark it off, used a straight edge and pencil to give me a guide line, and then went to work with 120 grit. Pulled up a tad short because I can always take off more but I can't put it back on (and no I don't want to have to use a shim).

I did do a final pass with 1000 grit to polish it up, and also to make it microscopically thinner so it won't be so hard to remove in the future. It still fits in there very snugly though.

Holy cow what a difference. Action now is just a hairline above 3/32 for the low E, 2/32 for the high E. No fret buzz. But where before there was too much low-definition boominess before, the bass is now tight and articulate. The mids have been brought up. And just as important to the more pleasing (to me) tone, the guitar feels much easier to play at this action than where it was before.

Took about 60 minutes to do all the changes and the restring/wipe-down/light cleaning. I believe in the "measure twice, cut once" so I was moving very deliberately when working on reducing the saddle height.

Not going to lie, it was fun and felt good to really work with my hands on this. Also I think SCGC put a very hard/dense bone saddle on this, because even with 120 grit, it took a long time to remove that little bit of saddle, but that's a good thing.

This guitar had been "sliding down the rankings" of the guitars I owned, and this adjustment has brought it back to near the top.
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  #10  
Old 10-22-2020, 04:33 AM
Rmccamey Rmccamey is offline
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If it is still tight, you can lay the saddle flat and sand the sides. As you say, not too much. I had to do this with one of my bone saddles...a few strokes on each side with 320 grit, a finish with a few strokes of 1000 grit and a final polish with toothpaste.
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  #11  
Old 10-22-2020, 08:07 AM
LakewoodM32Fan LakewoodM32Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmccamey View Post
If it is still tight, you can lay the saddle flat and sand the sides. As you say, not too much. I had to do this with one of my bone saddles...a few strokes on each side with 320 grit, a finish with a few strokes of 1000 grit and a final polish with toothpaste.
Great advice, as of now it's as I said microscopically thinner, and still very snug (though less so than before). My hope is that I rarely if ever will have to take it out again. There really was a lot of saddle there, and I think that's probably by design by SCGC, thinking you'll get it set up properly for your playing environment. Fortunately I live in very temperate climate, and the room where my guitars are kept stays between 45-55 RH year round (according to my hygrometer which retains months of data) and between 68-78F. So hopefully this is a stable enough environment that this is the "final" setting for it. Yes I know over the years and decades the neck will start to rise so at some point I'll have to take a little more off, but hopefully not for quite a while.
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  #12  
Old 01-10-2021, 07:43 PM
BayArea BayArea is offline
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I can confirm that my Santa Cruz OM 1994 does not have the saddle glued down. It took a bit of jostling but it came up just as I was about to give up. I’m planning to buy a spare that I can be a little experimental on with some sand paper.
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