Song writing

[bfloyd]

Hello all. My name is Bryan and I just found this forum. It looks great. I have a question regarding song writing in general. I always write my songs the music first and then write the melody and lyrics around the music. I read that many writers will write the lyric and melody first and then write the music around that. What is the best way to find what chord structure fits with the melody in this manner? How is this done? Thanks.

[Bill Cory]

Welcome to the forum, but ... wOw, that's a huge question! I don't think anybody here is crazy enough to try to answer it. Maybe you should search google for songwriting, songwriting forums, discussion groups, etc. There are a number of sites that deal with songwriting specifically. Good luck.

[jaeger29]

I'm with Will... I'm not crazy enough to try to answer it. I will, though, reply You can try to derive a chord structure from the notes in the melody, but the best way may be to experiment. Whenever I've worked backwards (as I consider this to be), I've come up with a bass line for the melody and gone from there. Sometimes, my E bassline ends up being a B chord or a variation like that...

[Bern]

Welcome !
It can be done both ways. Having the chord structure first and creating a melody over the changes is a little easier than having a melody and then adding a harmonic structure around it. Having the chord structure first, kind of locks you into a more common song structure. IMO, Creating a harmonic structure around a melody can produce some interesting new, never before experienced harmonic possibilities.

[Chicago Sandy]

Very rarely do I sit down and say "I"m going to write a song." Most often, the song comes to me out of nowhere and demands that I write it, and gives me no peace till I drop everything else (including other songs) and accede to its demands. It's a horribly undisciplined way to write (and quite the opposite of what the pros in the NSAI and songwriting teachers do--they say you can't call yourself a writer unless you write every day whether or not you've been inspired), but it works for me. Your mileage may vary.

I usually get a verbal phrase in my head that suggests itself as the title or hook, and generally, the vowels and rhythm of the words dictate the melody to me simltaneously. The chorus flows from that, much the same way. As for the verses, I generally jot down notes of what I want to say--if it's a story song, the plot of the story; if a "snapshot" or a protest or commentary, the salient points I want to make, and what I want each verse and the bridge to accomplish. Sometimes, that's so spontaneous that I don't even write it down first, just mull it over. Often, turns of phrase will come out of that, and that will determine rhythm and melody in much the same way as hook and chorus; but more often the words and rhythm arrive simultaneously and I write the lyric to the verses and then determine the melody--being careful to distinguish it from the chorus' melody. I try to make the latter shorter, simpler, and more suited to repetition. I then go back and see what type of bridge will be different enough from verse and chorus and yet tie them together.

I work out the chord progresion based on the melody, and then go back and tweak the melody to make it unique and sometimes substitute chords for the same reason.

I have never been able to sit down and write a poem and then set it to music (or set my melodies to other people's words), and I have rarely come up with a melody alone without a concept or lyric phrase that has been waiting around for a melody to set it in motion. I've written poetry, but never with an intent to turn it into lyrics; and the only melodies I've ever written without lyrics have been intros, solos or instrumental sections of songs---and those are usually derived from chord fingerings in the song's progression.

But everyone is different. There is no right or wrong way to write a song, only what works for you (and ultimately, your audience).

[Devin]

I work with some very talented people - not sure why they put up with the likes of me! Anyway, just last week I witnessed what you are talking about. We were in the studio and a daughter of one of the guys came in , and she has been working on writing some songs.

Well, she is just writing lyrics and melody... So she sang her idea, and within about a hour or two our lead guitarist sat with her and wrote the chord structure, intro, creative fills/licks, etc... The process was so cool. I have never even tried that...

I write chord progressions that usually, at least partially, suggest a melody and meter. From there, I usually take a concept or idea that either I (or another bandmate) have been thinking about and writing out the foundation for, and write the lyrics to fit the music already written. I am new to this anyway, but am having some success recently.

Then inverse is possible, but not natural, for me I guess... It is a cool process for talented people though. There is no "right" way to write music.

- Devin

[preston]

Sometimes the melody comes first, sometimes the chord progression, sometimes the lyric comes from the top down, sometimes it comes from a single line buried in the bowels of the song . . . there's no set "formula". What works . . . works.

A phrase, a single thought/idea, a story, a cliche' (country music has worked and continues to work THAT one to death), or simply a mood can be the genesis of a song.

One writer I read said "music is like an artesian well; music is flowing all the time. Lyrics, on the other hand, are work." Like all things, I find this to be mostly true for me but with notable exceptions. One of my more successful tunes was written in about 20 minutes on an airplane when I wasn't anywhere near a guitar or a keyboard. But I "heard" it plain as day as the lyric seemed to jump onto the page. Wish it happened more often like that . . .

[preston]

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[bfloyd]

Thanks for all the great replies to all. My writing style seems to always come with myself just sitting down playing my guitar. I stumble across a chord progression or "snippet" that catches my attention and go from there. The melody and lyric always comes after. I think only once did I ever sit down with the intention to write a song. They just sort of . . . happen. The reason I ask is there are those times where I don't have my guitar with me and a melody pops into my head. I try to put music under the melody later, but it just doesn't come out like I want it to. I will look into songwriting books as mentioned. Thanks again for the welcome.

[Chicago Sandy]

Melodies often have this infuriating habit of coming to me, too, when I am nowhere near an instrument (usually in the car). My work-around for this is to try and come up with some mnemonic device (like a phrase from a familiar song that resembles it or common interval) to help cement it in my memory. Of course, if I forget the mnemonic I'm up the proverbial creek. Another thing I sometimes do is to phone home and hum it into the answering machine (but if someone picks up......).

[bfloyd]

Originally Posted by Chicago Sandy

Melodies often have this infuriating habit of coming to me, too, when I am nowhere near an instrument (usually in the car). My work-around for this is to try and come up with some mnemonic device (like a phrase from a familiar song that resembles it or common interval) to help cement it in my memory. Of course, if I forget the mnemonic I'm up the proverbial creek. Another thing I sometimes do is to phone home and hum it into the answering machine (but if someone picks up......).

Maybe if someone picked up you could hum it to them in hopes that they would remember it too

[MWM]

I can record messages and notes directly into my cell phone. I've used it when I've been somewhere and wanted to remember a melody or phrasing. It's lousy quality but it's helped me several times.