The arm rest vs. arm bevel photo/info/opinion thread

[Steadfastly]

The beveled top is more for comfort not for correction the loss of projection because of your arm lessening the vibration of the top.

The arm rest keeps your arm off the top, allowing the guitar to vibrate freely, increasing the projection of sound and increasing the sustain.

That is the difference but I really like the look of the bevel top.

[rpnfan]

I used an existing thread which matches to my question "why are no armrests _built_in_ to steel string guitars?" and now see that the thread is "hijacked" by questions and discussions which have been discussed and answered already many times.

I have taken the time to read the related threads -- and found no answer to my questions / thoughts. I also took the time to summarize my thaughts, illustrate with relevant links and added those in a thread which already was on that topic.

I would very much appreciate if the netiquette could be followed here and not discussing what just comes to mind, when reading "any" thread.

Cheers, Paul

[L20A]

Originally Posted by mymartind35

The John Pearse two-sided tape will not harm an acoustic. I know that for a fact.

Not trying to hijack this thread but I must dis-agree with this statement completely!

While I use and like the JP armrest, it has caused damage to my guitar.

I have had discussions about this before and even had conversation with Wade about it.

When I decided to remove the JP rest from my 2005 Guild D-55, it had melted [for a lack of a better word] the finish on my guitar where the tape touched the surface of the top of the guitar.
This guitar has a nitro/lacquer finish.

I purchased some 3M double sided tape and put the guard back on the guitar to hide the scare.
This time I used 3 small pieces of tape rather than tape the entire guard, hoping for less damage. [One small piece on each end and one in the center.]

In my opinion if you use an arm rest on a guitar with a nitro/lacquer finish, plan on keeping it on permanently.

This is based only on my personal experiences with the guards.

[Skarsaune]

Originally Posted by mymartind35

The John Pearse two-sided tape will not harm an acoustic. I know that for a fact.

Originally Posted by L20A

Not trying to hijack this thread but I must dis-agree with this statement completely!

I agree with your disagreement! The used J-15 I bought previously had an armrest on it and the doublesided tape seemed to "sink in" to the nitro finish. Not a huge deal but you can see it if you look close.

[tippy5]

I have used the JP arm rest without too much lacquer damage (I didn't use a magnifying glass to get a great look but it seemed fine to me). Data point note: That was only one guitar and for less than a year. I liked the freer top but the extra 1/2" isn't great on my 4 7/8" dreadnaught, sitting.

I had a beveled Monkeypod Jeffrey Yong SJ that benefited with the bevel.

I have a lot of deep tonefull guitars. I am thinking of getting the new Taylor bevel, V-Braced, maple cutaway. A trip to LA guitars will decide. I had one crisp guitar before that was a joy to strum.

[justonwo]

I owned a Mustapick with a bevel. The little extra comfort is nice, but it’s not something I demand in a guitar. I don’t like the reduction in active area on the top. To me, a wedge design or a laterally arched top is a more effective solution for ergonomics. I don’t generally have issues with OM size guitars.

[nickv6]

My view may sound strange. I've only had two beveled guitars, a Batson and a Taylor.
On both I found that my arm rested across the whole bevel and sweated! I found it most annoying and realised I preferred a sharp edge mark on my arm to a sweaty patch.
I do think keeping my arm off the top gives a better sound but it's minimal so I shan't buy another with it.
Nick

[B Chas]

I have a bevel on my Charis SJ, the comfort of a smaller guitar, with the sound of a bigger one.

[Jeff Scott]

Originally Posted by rpnfan

I used an existing thread which matches to my question "why are no armrests _built_in_ to steel string guitars?" and now see that the thread is "hijacked" by questions and discussions which have been discussed and answered already many times.

I have taken the time to read the related threads -- and found no answer to my questions / thoughts. I also took the time to summarize my thaughts, illustrate with relevant links and added those in a thread which already was on that topic.

I would very much appreciate if the netiquette could be followed here and not discussing what just comes to mind, when reading "any" thread.

Cheers, Paul

Are you the OP of this thread?

[justonwo]

Originally Posted by Steadfastly

The beveled top is more for comfort not for correction the loss of projection because of your arm lessening the vibration of the top.

The arm rest keeps your arm off the top, allowing the guitar to vibrate freely, increasing the projection of sound and increasing the sustain.

That is the difference but I really like the look of the bevel top.

I think that’s a theory. In practice, you can get fantastic projection from a guitar without a bevel. For the most part, the bevel is for comfort and I tbink it helps a little.

[Wade Hampton]

Paul wrote:

Originally Posted by rpnfan

I used an existing thread which matches to my question "why are no armrests _built_in_ to steel string guitars?" and now see that the thread is "hijacked" by questions and discussions which have been discussed and answered already many times.

I have taken the time to read the related threads -- and found no answer to my questions / thoughts. I also took the time to summarize my thaughts, illustrate with relevant links and added those in a thread which already was on that topic.

I would very much appreciate if the netiquette could be followed here and not discussing what just comes to mind, when reading "any" thread.

Well, you know what, Paul, you can wish people would follow "netiquette" all you want, but I honestly think you're setting yourself up for frustration if you believe that instructing others on how to comport themselves on this or any other online forum will have any effect.

It won't.

This particular forum is very good about avoiding foul language and bullying behavior, because the moderators can and will step in when needed. But you're kidding yourself if you think you can change the meandering style of discourse. Threads tend to evolve rather than follow straight paths, and at most all you're likely to do by trying to rein in the discussion is spark yet another thread that goes nowhere.

The best way to get the specific information you're after is, if you don't get answers in one thread, is simply to start another homing in on the topic you're trying to pursue.

But telling other people how to post and chiding them if they stray off-topic is an exercise in futility. Folks are going to write what they're going to write. The key to making this worthwhile is to sift through the material and recognizing which of the posts are useful and which are mere persiflage.

Hope this helps.


Wade Hampton Miller

[jazzguy]

I have owned one guitar that had an JP armrest. It was a wonderful Martin OM-21. I liked the idea of an arm rest but it really did not do anything for me, so I took it off. There was then a distinct "tan line" as you might expect. I couldn't live with the tan line aesthetics unfortunately so I moved it on. So be aware - if you are going to use an arm rest and leave it on, a tan line (like a pickguard) is a real possibility.

It so happens that I played an Alvarez arm-beveled Grand Auditorium guitar this past Friday. I have never played a beveled guitar until Friday. As you can see in my signature, I have moved to small body guitars. However - the Alvarez was VERY comfortable! Pretty amazing actually..to the point that I would actually consider buying a GA sized guitar as long as it had a bevel. Honestly, as long as it is done right...I can see a great majority of guitars in the future come with an arm bevel. It just works.
I think it was this model.https://www.alvarezguitars.com/guitar/ag60ar/ Solid Sitka top, mahogany laminate sides. Sounded great. Alvarez guitars are a very good value IMHO.

[colins]

Originally Posted by rpnfan

I know there are many threads discussing armbevels (built-in: Ryan or Laskin style and the like) or aftermarket armrests (John Pearce seems to be popular for steelstrings, nobody seems to use those from Ortega on steelstrings...!?), but I have never seen or heard about a steelstring guitar with a built-in armrest like they do on classicals:



Article on armrests-for-classical-guitar

I wonder why nobody (at least not commonly) choses to use built-in armrests in a steelstring guitar. In that way they can be

• very small and unobtrusive
• matching perfectly to the curvature of the guitar
• keeping to help the arm from the guitar top - thus improving sustain / overtones

This seems to me far easier to build than a bevel, while still improving comfort and surely also the sound (where with the built-in-bevels, that might not improve sound). Am I missing something or do I just have to be the first to order a custom steel-string with that feature, before the world finds out that this design is at least a good alternative to aftermarket armrests and built-in-bevels!? ;-)

And as an additional bonus adding an armrest permanently to a given guitar by the builder / luthier himself might also be a viable option I guess.

Looking forward to hear your feedback on that! :-)

Thanks for all the links. The arm rests do seem to have a lot going for them. The JP armrests are used by a few people, but even here on what could be called a geek forum, they do not seem to be the norm. So the market appears to be pretty small and that would be a significant factor for guitar makers regardless of whether or not they assist the sound. I guess that makes it a bit of a “chicken and egg” dilemma.

Many guitarists like a traditional looking guitar too, and arm rests or bevels do not fit with their preferred look for an instrument.

I have bevels on a couple of my guitars because it helps me play with shoulder issues. Some of my guitars do not have bevels but if I found guitar that I liked with a permanent arm rest the added depth of the rest may be a deal breaker, for me at least.

[rpnfan]

Originally Posted by colins

Thanks for all the links. The arm rests do seem to have a lot going for them. [...]

I have bevels on a couple of my guitars because it helps me play with shoulder issues. Some of my guitars do not have bevels but if I found guitar that I liked with a permanent arm rest the added depth of the rest may be a deal breaker, for me at least.

Thanks for the reply.

I'll watch to see if / what else will be answered to my questions / thoughts, but just decided I'm gaining more from leaving the forum, than staying -- this to optimize my time. :-)

Cheers, Paul

[ManyMartinMan]

Originally Posted by rpnfan

.... I wonder why nobody (at least not commonly) choses to use built-in armrests in a steelstring guitar. In that way they can be
....

Simply - Demand. Why build something into an instrument that would put off probably 97% of potential buyers when it can be added in 2 minutes after purchase. My advice is just add one if you want one.