Buying Harmony Stella need opinions/advice

[zombywoof]

Originally Posted by gfirob

This is what Jake Wildwood says about those Harmony 12 strings on his blog site:

"Looking for that big, punchy, brutal Leadbelly sound but don't have the multi-thousands for a true 20s Stella 12 string? Yeah, these will get you really close: with 25 1/4" scale lengths, a big 16" ladder-braced dread-depth body, and a 12-fret neck joint they're about the only more "modern" guitar that comes close to the old specs -- and it's still nearly 50 years old.

The Harmony Stellas that will get you closest to that Leadbelly thunder are the H922 12 strings such as Blind Willie Mctell played in his later years. Problem is these disappear from the catalog in 1965. The "Holy Grail" of these are the pre-1957 figure 8 big round bottom guitars. These are hard as it gets to find. I have only run across one in the last five or so years. And that one was creeping up to the $2K mark.

[Edgar Poe]

Lemoncats;

The ones you have listed have too many issues. by the time you pay for repairs you could buy this guitar outright.

Check out the harmony 12 strings on eBay.

Ed

[bisco1]

In my opinion, my Harmony H-1270 is so far superior to the 2 H-922's I owned that there really is no comparison. I've never owned a 1920's or 1930's Stella so I can't comment on their tone/playability, although there was a '20's-'30's PROJECT Stella on Ebay last week that I bid on, but I was way short of the final selling price.
On the H-1270's, the key in my opinion is the set-up. I spent hours making the nut and the saddle spacer to get things just right. I wanted equal spacing between the strings in each course, and equal spacing between each course. I also wanted as narrow a spacing between strings in each course so I could maximize the fretboard real estate--I play with bare fingers so I need all the room I can get! It's tough to make a nut or saddle spacer with only .060" between each string in the courses and not break the little nubs off that separate the individual strings. I ruined a few nut blanks before I finally got it done. It was well worth the effort, as I ended up with a beautiful sounding and playing 12 string that I believe could hold it's own against most if not all 12's. I left the bridge floating, but I wonder if there is a little more left in it if I were to scrape off the finish and glue it solid with HHG. I also wonder if it would be better with a narrower bridge than the stock 1-1/8" or so one that comes on these models. My H-1270 is a 1967 model that has the most beautiful tight grained Sitka top and a marvelous ONE piece mahogany back measuring slightly over 16" wide--try finding a piece of wood like that today!
I believe a ladder braced design for a 12 string is a better choice than a X-braced design-I think the X-brace is just too "busy" for a 12 string as there is SO much going on as it is with 12 strings going at once.
As you can tell, I love these old Harmonys, and I believe they will be more appreciated in the years to come.

[zombywoof]

Originally Posted by bisco1

In my opinion, my Harmony H-1270 is so far superior to the 2 H-922's I owned that there really is no comparison. I've never owned a 1920's or 1930's Stella so I can't comment on their tone/playability, although there was a '20's-'30's PROJECT Stella on Ebay last week that I bid on, but I was way short of the final selling price.

I believe a ladder braced design for a 12 string is a better choice than a X-braced design-I think the X-brace is just too "busy" for a 12 string as there is SO much going on as it is with 12 strings going at once.
As you can tell, I love these old Harmonys, and I believe they will be more appreciated in the years to come.

There is certainly a difference in sound between an all-birch H922 and a H1270. The Sovereign will appeal more to the modern ear.

The ladder bracing in a 12 string probably had more to do with structural stability than sound. Baltimore builder Carl Holzapfel put X bracing in his six strings but ladder bracing in his 12 strings. I have owned only one X braced pre-War jumbo - a Regal. To try and keep the things from twisting themselves apart, Regal slapped the fattest three piece neck in the known guitar universe on the guitar and used a double X brace (shades of Norlin Gibson). Gibson learned the same lesson about X bracing in 12 strings. Their first B45-12 string guitars built from 1961 to 1964 were basically 12 string necks with a humongous headstock slapped on a normally braced six string body. I own a 1961 slope shoulder Gibson 12 string and it is an amazing sounding guitar with the typical Gibson thump in the low end, saturated mids, and not a lot of upper end jangle. While great for sound though the light bracing was not the best thing for survival. In 1965 Gibson figured it out and beefed up the bracing by adding sister braces to the X.

[LemonCats]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

I asked the members of the Collings/Waterloo forum what other models they would like to see built under the Waterloo brand. I also suggested a version of the Stella/Harmony 12 string. (Didn't see much enthusiasm).

Wow thank you so much for suggesting that! I can't believe there wasn't a full on uproar over the 12string suggestion, I guess they've never played or heard a Stella 12 string before. Once they do I'm sure they will be converted haha! Btw I'm kinda shocked that so few of waterloo's guitars have slotted headstocks, thats certainly something id love to see them add more of

Originally Posted by zombywoof

There is certainly a difference in sound between an all-birch H922 and a H1270. The Sovereign will appeal more to the modern ear.

I agree completely, Personally I'm in love with the all-birch sound but the h1270 is certainly much better balanced and the first thing I thought when i heard it was wow this would appeal more to the modern ear. (Yet still has enough of that characteristic ladderbraced sound)
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I just made another post over in the Build/Repair section about another potential Harmony I'm looking at. I could use some advice/opinions from everyone, check it out here

[zombywoof]

Originally Posted by LemonCats

Wow thank you so much for suggesting that! I can't believe there wasn't a full on uproar over the 12string suggestion, I guess they've never played or heard a Stella 12 string before. Once they do I'm sure they will be converted haha! Btw I'm kinda shocked that so few of waterloo's guitars have slotted headstocks, thats certainly something id love to see them add more of



I agree completely, Personally I'm in love with the all-birch sound but the h1270 is certainly much better balanced and the first thing I thought when i heard it was wow this would appeal more to the modern ear. (Yet still has enough of that characteristic ladderbraced sound)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I just made another post over in the Build/Repair section about another potential Harmony I'm looking at. I could use some advice/opinions from everyone, check it out here

To me the Sovereign H1260 is every bit as iconic an acoustic as the Gibson J-45 or Martin D-28 and is arguable along with Gibson Hummingbird the greatest Rock & Roll acoustic on the planet. One thing I have found though is you will get a lot of opinions of Harmonys based on little more than experiences with them as a first guitar decades ago and which conjure up memories of a boxy, hollow sounding instrument with an action so high you could slip your fingers in between the board and strings. Harmonys reputation for producing el cheapo guitars was so ingrained that when, in a last ditch effort to save the company, they came out with the Opus line which were truly well designed and beautifully built X braced guitars, nobody was buying it.

On repairs, the Harmony Guitar Database has a whole section dedicated to Kitchen Repairs for those who want a playable guitar but are unwilling to spend what it takes to get these things in great playing condition. The biggest problem I have run into is badly cupped necks on guitars without truss rods which require compression frets in addition to the neck reset.

[gfirob]

However beloved Harmony guitars my be in the misty veil of memory, they were a cheap brand generally very poorly built compared to Gibsons or Martins of the time. I have a friend whose father ran the factory in its latter days and who himself worked in the plant. He describes their hiring and training as rudimentary at best and the plant overall as a sort of low-rent wood shop as distinct from a factory full of any kind of craftsmen. It was a mill and thats why every Harmony needs a neck-set. They were the first guitar for a lot of people (including me) but generally if you were going to continue playing the guitar you traded up as soon as you could, before your hands were crippled forever by the terrible action and poor fret work. The kindest thing you can say about them is that they used solid wood. My opinion only, of course.

[619TF]

Originally Posted by zombywoof

The H630 was one of the last Stellas offered by Harmony showing up in the early 1970s. There should be a date stamp on the gold foil label or somewhere. These were pretty much a replacement for the H930 which appeared in 1971 and almost identical down to the ADJ adjustable plastic bridge having only slightly different cosmetics.

Thanks zombywoof! That helps a bit. No date anywhere and the label is paper not gold foil so I'm still not quite there yet but at least I've got a "neighborhood" for the first time.

[zombywoof]

Originally Posted by gfirob

However beloved Harmony guitars my be in the misty veil of memory, they were a cheap brand generally very poorly built compared to Gibsons or Martins of the time. I have a friend whose father ran the factory in its latter days and who himself worked in the plant. He describes their hiring and training as rudimentary at best and the plant overall as a sort of low-rent wood shop as distinct from a factory full of any kind of craftsmen. It was a mill and thats why every Harmony needs a neck-set. They were the first guitar for a lot of people (including me) but generally if you were going to continue playing the guitar you traded up as soon as you could, before your hands were crippled forever by the terrible action and poor fret work. The kindest thing you can say about them is that they used solid wood. My opinion only, of course.

Neck resets are, of course, also not uncommon with older Martins And the Banner Gibsons were built by inexperienced workers whose training generally consisted of watching the person next to them. But no doubt, Harmony did not worry about such things as using wood seasoned the eight or so years it needed to guarantee stability or how well the neck joints were done. The thing about Harmony is in the 1960s they were still using much of the same belt driven machinery that had been there since the 1890s.

And no argument that many of us outgrew those guitars we started out with and figured they were no longer good enough for us. It did not help that more than a few of us had no clue you could get a guitar setup to improve playability. I am one of those though who never abandoned Harmonys and Kays and always kept one or two around. Sometimes you just need a bit of ladder braced goodness.