Impact of Internet Guitar Sales on Local Guitar Shops, Everywhere, USA

[sevenpalms]

Pre-Reverb, our friends at Ebay we’re charging 10% for most guitar sales (I believe it was a sliding scale). Now, Ebay is at 3.5% like Reverb....that’s certainly a good thing for sellers. So, ya gotta give em credit. They’ve provided a great tool for those of us who love buying and selling guitars!

[ancient tones]

I did not read all of the post here. With that said I believe that I got the gist of the OP.

IMO, CME has rigged the whole Reverb.com system in their own favor. I have a small hobbyist type store on reverb.com with 600 or so transactions. I'm getting out of it.

Two examples: CME would sell b stock or mint pedals which were in fact new, for less than I would have my used pedals listed. Was this intentional aimed at me or other small stores....IDK? It seems once my pedals were sold their price would go back up

CME bought a used vintage Martin at a fair price from me. They came back at me with multiple unsubstantiated clains of problems wanting a partial refund. I said no, send it back for a full refund, no problem. The next week the guitar was offered by CME for $700 more than they had paid me.

I'm not complaining. Maybe it's all in my imagination, but it's not the game that I want to play in.

[6L6]

The train has left the station and it's affected some folks in a good way and some in a bad way.

My fav guitar store (Gryphon) has a phenomenal repair department and service is second to none. Their selection of guitars is also fantastic.

To support all of that, their prices are considerably higher than what anyone can buy a nice guitar for online.

The fact that I can afford to pay Gryphon's prices doesn't mean I'm into wasting money. Occasionally I buy online, but mostly I buy at the store.

Gryphon saw the train leaving the online station years ago and hopped on. They do a brisk internet business as well as sell locally at their shop.

It's a tough time for many smaller dealers to be in the guitar business. I wish all of them well.

[Pitar]

The guitars I own were purchased from small shops, specifically -

https://www.yellowpages.com/louisvil...sales-21382725

and -

https://www.cornerstoneguitars.com/

and maintained by this place -

http://www.guitarfactory.us/

I don't buy online. I'd rather schedule a little time and make a road trip than order online. I bought from Dan Becker when I lived in Kentucky, then moved to central Florida and bought from Cornerstone Music. The Guitar Factory is an icon of a place where celebrities are known to haunt. Great people, all three places.

[Manothemtns]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

People use to try out guitars at my friend's store, then buy it online to save $50 on something like a 03-series Larrivee. They would then bring the online-bought guitar in and complain that it didn't play as nicely as his did, so there must be something wrong with it. He would point out that he went through every instrument he was selling and tweek the setup, nut slots, and frets before putting his on the floor.



Then they would be outraged that for him to do the same on their guitar would cost more than then have saved...

Sounds like your shop has figured a workaround that seems to be working. A good setup/repair department can definitely offset potential losses elsewhere. Smart.

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by Manothemtns

Sounds like your shop has figured a workaround that seems to be working. A good setup/repair department can definitely offset potential losses elsewhere. Smart.

He closed his store. He had already cut his margins to the bone. So have 2-3 other good B&Ms that use to be in the area when I moved here in 2001 are also gone.

[Manothemtns]

Originally Posted by Brucebubs

I live in a small rural town.
Nearest music store is 50 miles away.
When I asked if they could come close to the internet price I found on a new Maton 12-string they refused to talk money and told me to buy it online.... so I did.
Their prices for strings are nearly double on some brands.
I go out of my way to not use them.
I don't care if they close down.

The internet opened a whole new source for me.

I bought my Guild F-412, Martin JDP II, Alvarez ABT-60, Rickenbacker 4003, Taylor 355 and 422 and 4 kit guitars from the USA.

I buy strings from Strings By Mail, Strings & Beyond and Elderly Instruments.

I'm sorry if anyone finds this offensive.

Not offensive at all. I live in the boonies and my closest guitar shop is roughly a 90 minute drive. I wait til I have business it the area and stop by and stock up on gear and supplies when I'm in town. They treat me well, know me by name, and make every effort to make me feel at home. For that, I'll buy there. It's on guitars that I like to have that level of a bond. As for things in the rest of my life, much of it comes from Amazon. I do what makes sense while keeping an eye on my friendly guitar shop. Knowledgeable, too...another plus, no attitude. The shop also has a strong Reverb presence and I've viewed inventory online and come in a buy it at the store. Very convenient...best of both worlds.

[Manothemtns]

Originally Posted by AZLiberty

The very premise is flawed.



Other than Musician's Friend (who is not actually that competitive) every internet retailer that I have purchased from actually IS a Brick and Mortar company as well.



If your local B&M can't compete, it's because they are not competitive.





Elderly Instruments - Extensive B&M in addition to internet sales.

LA Guitar Sales - Nice, high end, B&M in addition to internet sales

My Favorite Guitar - B&M Retail shop in addition to internet sales.

Wildwood - Same



So if your brick and mortar local shop is going under, it's being killed by other B&M shops, that actually know how to compete in a modern economy.



Even in the dark times before the web, local shops mostly survived on band rentals, accessories, strings, and music lessons. Also used sales. Where the web has really made a difference is in the markup on used items, it's leveled the playing field because it's much easier to comparison shop. And of course, a large number of instruments being sold on Reverb are also being sold by small Brick and Mortar instrument (and pawn) shops, who are using it as a platform to expand their customer base.

I get the point. Try not to drill so hard.

[Manothemtns]

Originally Posted by ancient tones

I did not read all of the post here. With that said I believe that I got the gist of the OP.

IMO, CME has rigged the whole Reverb.com system in their own favor. I have a small hobbyist type store on reverb.com with 600 or so transactions. I'm getting out of it.

Two examples: CME would sell b stock or mint pedals which were in fact new, for less than I would have my used pedals listed. Was this intentional aimed at me or other small stores....IDK? It seems once my pedals were sold their price would go back up

CME bought a used vintage Martin at a fair price from me. They came back at me with multiple unsubstantiated clains of problems wanting a partial refund. I said no, send it back for a full refund, no problem. The next week the guitar was offered by CME for $700 more than they had paid me.

I'm not complaining. Maybe it's all in my imagination, but it's not the game that I want to play in.

CME and Reverb do exploit every available opportunity. I don't doubt your story at all. Reverb is supposed to operate independent of CME but in reality, their so intertwined one cannot tell them apart. Conflict of interest...you betcha.

[Manothemtns]

Originally Posted by Pitar

The guitars I own were purchased from small shops, specifically -

https://www.yellowpages.com/louisvil...sales-21382725

and -

https://www.cornerstoneguitars.com/

and maintained by this place -

http://www.guitarfactory.us/

I don't buy online. I'd rather schedule a little time and make a road trip than order online. I bought from Dan Becker when I lived in Kentucky, then moved to central Florida and bought from Cornerstone Music. The Guitar Factory is an icon of a place where celebrities are known to haunt. Great people, all three places.

Good! In fact, great!

[Manothemtns]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

He closed his store. He had already cut his margins to the bone. So have 2-3 other good B&Ms that use to be in the area when I moved here in 2001 are also gone.

Sorry to hear that part...really. There have been several comments on this thread going something like this: "Well, if the particular B&M couldn't make it it's because they blah blah blah, blah" Not necessarily. You can be a supremely astute business person and still lose your business. I know.

[Manothemtns]

Originally Posted by AZLiberty

The very premise is flawed.



Other than Musician's Friend (who is not actually that competitive) every internet retailer that I have purchased from actually IS a Brick and Mortar company as well.



If your local B&M can't compete, it's because they are not competitive.





Elderly Instruments - Extensive B&M in addition to internet sales.

LA Guitar Sales - Nice, high end, B&M in addition to internet sales

My Favorite Guitar - B&M Retail shop in addition to internet sales.

Wildwood - Same



So if your brick and mortar local shop is going under, it's being killed by other B&M shops, that actually know how to compete in a modern economy.



Even in the dark times before the web, local shops mostly survived on band rentals, accessories, strings, and music lessons. Also used sales. Where the web has really made a difference is in the markup on used items, it's leveled the playing field because it's much easier to comparison shop. And of course, a large number of instruments being sold on Reverb are also being sold by small Brick and Mortar instrument (and pawn) shops, who are using it as a platform to expand their customer base.

What premise might that be? I was going to and buying from Wildwood way before the internet. I see all sides to the argument, not just one. Take it easy.

[Manothemtns]

Originally Posted by Atomnimity

My two guitars I purchased recently (to get back into playing after many years) came from Alamo Music in San Antonio. I live in Florida. I connected with Alamo via the internet (Thank you Gary and Chris). Subsequently, I developed a relationship with them and will always check their inventory if I need anything. It was the relationship - price that drew me to them. So the internet was involved. If used properly it is a useful tool even for smaller businesses.



I wanted the gold G7th Special edition kapo and could not find it anywhere in the states. I ordered it off the G7th website - they are in UK. It was here the next day - not sure how? Developed a relationship with Simon Campling at G7th. Tried to hook him up with Alamo Music at NAMM lol. Internet can be a powerful tool - too powerful?

I've done a fair bit of business with Alamo...the downtown store, and have found it to be a solid shop with solid employees. They're a huge Martin dealer so that's the brand in which they're schooled to shine. Great, knowledgeable, well appointed store.

[brencat]

The internet has been a disruptive force but as others have mentioned, that train has left the station. I'm willing to pay a little bit more for the privilege of buying local, but not 15%+ more for the same item. These days, I'm mostly into the boutiques anyway, and don't have time for road trips with work and family obligations. It's hard enough to find shops that carry a decent selection of high end Martins, even more difficult to try Santa Cruz, Goodall, and Collings without getting on a plane, and as I mentioned I just don't have time for that. The other thing for me, is that I'm super picky about neck profiles and only certain shops around the country often have the things I'm looking for in a custom offering. So buying online from a B&M in another state with an internet presence that offers a return privilege is a great option.

I do agree with another poster about sales tax arbitrage being a major factor in lost sales for local B&Ms. Sales tax should be collected on all online purchases, period.

[Brucebubs]

Sales tax should be collected on all online purchases, period.

Bought in last year here in Australia.