"Scarborough Fair" with added harmony & canticle

[ITB]

Wow Glenn -- Fine performance and production!

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Great job Glenn

I for one know that multi track and getting it all to "gel" is no small or easy task
So well done indeed

Also learned something new , that the counter vocal that weaves throughout the Simon and Garfunkel version is called a "canticle"

The other thing I learned was that was some controversy about the Simon and Garfunkel version, particularly with Martin Carthy (whom Simon learned the traditional song from) over the the fact that Simon and Garfunkel were the only copyright credit on their version, Carthy felt that the "traditional source " aspect should have been listed as well . Not unlike similar complaints leveled at Led Zep and others with traditional blues songs .

Hi Kevin,

Thanks so much for your thoughts and comments! I'm very gratified that you thought this came out okay.

And you've just taught me a few things, too!

For one, I had not heard that term "canticle" before. I do know that they are telling grandparents these days not to tickle their grandchildren (i.e., "can't tickle" rule), but that's as close to that word as I have ever gotten. I always thought of that 2nd song (the canticle) woven into the traditional song as a kind of counterpoint.

I did know that "Scarborough Fair" was a traditional song from the British Isles, and I did know that Martin Carthy had his own version of this. I think the reason that Simon & Garfunkel have had a copyright claim on their version of the song was only because of the inclusion of the canticle and because of the arrangement, both guitar and vocal. I had assumed it was understood that someone could do the more simple version of "Scarborough Fair" and it would be as free of copyright claims as "Jack and Jill," but I could be wrong. I listed my first solo version of this song as "traditional" for that reason.

Thanks again for your thoughtful comments Kevin!

- Glenn

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by ITB

Wow Glenn -- Fine performance and production!

Hi John!

Thanks so much for listening and taking the time to comment! I'm really happy that you feel that this came out well! Much appreciated!

- Glenn

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Hi Kevin,

Thanks so much for your thoughts and comments! I'm very gratified that you thought this came out okay.

And you've just taught me a few things, too!

For one, I had not heard that term "canticle" before. I do know that they are telling grandparents these days not to tickle their grandchildren (i.e., "can't tickle" rule), but that's as close to that word as I have ever gotten. I always thought of that 2nd song (the canticle) woven into the traditional song as a kind of counterpoint.

I did know that "Scarborough Fair" was a traditional song from the British Isles, and I did know that Martin Carthy had his own version of this. I think the reason that Simon & Garfunkel have had a copyright claim on their version of the song was only because of the inclusion of the canticle and because of the arrangement, both guitar and vocal. I had assumed it was understood that someone could do the more simple version of "Scarborough Fair" and it would be as free of copyright claims as "Jack and Jill," but I could be wrong. I listed my first solo version of this song as "traditional" for that reason.

Thanks again for your thoughtful comments Kevin!

- Glenn

To clarify their copyright for their version (arrangement) is completely legal and IMO also legitimate, as is anyone's who records a traditional (in the Public Domain) song. Particularly as you point they not only the added the canticle but the melody was reworked also .

The issue was more about not including any indication it was a traditional based song in their copyright listing.

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by KevWind

To clarify their copyright for their version (arrangement) is completely legal and IMO also legitimate, as is anyone's who records a traditional (in the Public Domain) song. Particularly as you point they not only the added the canticle but the melody was reworked also .

The issue was more about not including any indication it was a traditional based song in their copyright listing.

Yes, I do understand your point and I also wonder why S&G didn't note that the song was based on a traditional tune. Then again, his "American Tune" song was based on, at least in my experience, an old church hymn. He never gave credit to that, either, but at the same time he readily acknowledged where that tune had come from.

I guess I just assumed that he had some legal advice on how these issues should be handled. At the time, I was awfully busy completing my engineering education so I had no time to think about Paul Simon's copyright decisions. I did have time, though, to figure out how to play these songs on the guitar, which I guess shows where my interest was.

Thanks again for your thoughts Kev!

- Glenn