Why not a Ted, Emerald X20 acoustic challenge?

[Doubleneck]

Originally Posted by EvanB

Ted;

I respect your opinion. I liked my X20-OSN, but ended up selling it because it was a bit large for my taste. It's not easy to get things exactly the way we want. If you decide to sell the guitar I'm sure you'll have no trouble finding buyers.

Cup marks can really hurt resale value!

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

Originally Posted by Acousticado

Imo, there's nothing to challenge at all, Ted. Your perspective is valid so far as I'm concerned. Remember though, you can order pretty-much any customization you may want, at a cost of course, but not outrageous. That's part of the allure of Emeralds.

Thanks, guys. And yes, I am aware that Emerald accepts custom orders, but folks would need to know that this could be a problem before ordering the guitar. I think this is a design flaw that needs to be addressed by Alistair. In my opinion, the guitar should come with 20 frets as standard, with an option for an extended fretboard.

Evan, yes, the guitar is definitely a full size grand auditorium, so more of a stage, studio, stay at home guitar. This is something that became much more noticeable when I took it out on our boat with us. As for selling it, when I buy a guitar for research I tend to hold on to it for a few years. Course by then I'm sure the new 20 fret version will be out, making this one a bit harder to sell. That, and all the cup marks.

[jdinco]

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

I didn't know this was a problem - I've always played all over the top, from the bridge up to, and above, the fretboard. Different tones. Electric and acoustic. Even with my traditional acoustics, I'm not always playing right over the soundhole.

I didn't even realize I was doing it until I started hearing click clack noises from hitting the fret board with the pick once in a while. I figure I had bad posture and was not holding the guitar properly, I tend to lean over it a bit and slide it to the right slightly. (Makes it a short scale) LOL So it very well may be me !! And Ted is leaning over the guitar using his sipee cup, so it could be him too! LOL It's an easy adjustment and still sounds great.

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by jdinco

And Ted is leaning over the guitar using his sipee cup

LOL! So, for those of us who aren't sold on the design or tone of the X20 we might be somehow infantile?

Just over analysing on my part

[Captain Jim]

Originally Posted by steelvibe

LOL! So, for those of us who aren't sold on the design or tone of the X20 we might be somehow infantile?

Just over analysing on my part

I am sold on the design and tone of the X20... and totally OK with being childish, infantile, or just juvenile. Keeps me young.

Which reminds me of the old joke:

Kid to Mom: When I grow up, I'm going to be a guitar player.

Mom: Well, Honey, you know you can't do both.

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

I am sold on the design and tone of the X20... and totally OK with being childish, infantile, or just juvenile. Keeps me young.

Which reminds me of the old joke:

Kid to Mom: When I grow up, I'm going to be a guitar player.

Mom: Well, Honey, you know you can't do both.

Exactly.

How do you get the guitarist off your porch?

Pay for the pizza!

I'm here all day folks, now where's my sipee cup??

[ac]

Originally Posted by jdinco

I didn't even realize I was doing it until I started hearing click clack noises from hitting the fret board with the pick once in a while. I figure I had bad posture and was not holding the guitar properly, I tend to lean over it a bit and slide it to the right slightly. (Makes it a short scale) LOL So it very well may be me !! And Ted is leaning over the guitar using his sipee cup, so it could be him too! LOL It's an easy adjustment and still sounds great.

Oddly, I have the same issue with my Journey OF660. The shape and size of the guitar, combined with the normal way I hold and play, causes my hand to come over the fretboard and my playing hand fingers sometimes hit into the fretboard or touch the frets. So I've just learned to adjust my arm to avoid that. I'm still happy there are 20 frets on that small bodied guitar.

Finding the holy guitar grail isn't easy. For example, there was discussion in several threads in the past regarding the sharpness of the edges of Rainsong fretboards. This was a real issue for some--but a complete non-issue for others. Those that didn't care for the sharpness they felt that came in conjunction with their playing style, still kept their guitars (as I recall). So I would say the Rainsong fretboards a design choice rather than a design flaw, even though it bothered some players.

I have made my personal adjustments to the OF660 and really like the guitar--especially the spot on intonation. It's really remarkable. But I've never thought of the fretboard length as a design flaw--rather just a design choice.

[Doubleneck]

Originally Posted by ac

Oddly, I have the same issue with my Journey OF660. The shape and size of the guitar, combined with the normal way I hold and play, causes my hand to come over the fretboard and my playing hand fingers sometimes hit into the fretboard or touch the frets. So I've just learned to adjust my arm to avoid that. I'm still happy there are 20 frets on that small bodied guitar.

Finding the holy guitar grail isn't easy. For example, there was discussion in several threads in the past regarding the sharpness of the edges of Rainsong fretboards. This was a real issue for some--but a complete non-issue for others. Those that didn't care for the sharpness they felt that came in conjunction with their playing style, still kept their guitars (as I recall). So I would say the Rainsong fretboards a design choice rather than a design flaw, even though it bothered some players.

I have made my personal adjustments to the OF660 and really like the guitar--especially the spot on intonation. It's really remarkable. But I've never thought of the fretboard length as a design flaw--rather just a design choice.

The use of the words "design flaw" is really poor in this context. I dislike the Rainsong N2 beefy neck but I don't think of it as a design flaw: many like it. I adjust to it when I play my JM-1000, but my favorite guitar which currently is wood has a much slimmer neck which is perfect for me. If all guitars were made perfect for me, there would a lot of disappointed players out there.

[sumokids]

I agree -- it's not a "design flaw" and anyone paying attention knows that Ted would never use those words to describe a guitar built by anyone other than the good folks at Emerald. Imagine Ted's response if the N2 neck was described that way (Irish spies, anyone?) ;0)

[Jimmy Koh]

The X20 is not my thing. But the 24 fret and player-oriented soundhole are signature features of the guitar. Definitely not design flaws.

The inability to shave down the saddle to achieve a good string height, without the string end with minimum break angle, from my personal observation from Rainsong guitars, is what I call design flaw.

[Captain Jim]

24 frets is a "design flaw"?? Oh, a swing and a miss!

Imagine all those Les Paul players out there with "flawed" guitars!

A traditional classic acoustic has 19 frets. More frequently, you see guitars with 20 to 22 frets. Some guitars have 27 frets. My X7 has 19 frets. The X20 comes with 24 frets. I love frets... my guitars wouldn't be the same without 'em.

Do not fear the frets... nor the delightful, unique soundhole; the soundhole that delivers that great tone to the player as well as the listeners. (Why should only the listeners get the best sound?)

Verily I say unto thee: embrace the difference! It has (somewhat jokingly) been said, "That which we do not understand, we must fear and ridicule." Like some here, I once doubted the gains to be had by an advance in guitar design... but, I stepped out and gave it a try. OK, the X7 was a "small" step. But, it showed me that the old Arby's ad "Different is better" had veracity... and I dived in with an X20. A big step... in fact, the first larger guitar I've bought since getting the Taylor 814 and then 5 consecutively smaller guitars; 3 carbon fiber guitars. Yes, I once mistrusted the idea of a non-wood guitar.

Alas (and how often do you get to say "alas"?), I have seen the light... um, heard the tone. Play what you like - there are many options out there. There is no need to fear or ridicule a choice different from your own. Enjoy the playing, enjoy the tone... enjoy the frets!

[Kerbie]

Like everybody else, I'm having trouble understanding the use of the phrase, "design flaw." The only way I could see the number of frets representing a design flaw is if a maker haphazardly added, or eliminated, frets without changing the scale and thereby threw off the geometry of the fretboard. I could then understand if that affected intonation.

But that accusation hasn't been made and appears to definitely NOT be the case here. So, aside from intonation, how the fret number represents a design flaw is a mystery to me. Maybe Sean can give an opinion and maybe Ted will add detail to the reasoning.

[bizango1]

Design flaw? Huh? 24 frets-huh? I haven't noticed. I just pick it up and play it and enjoy it. I suppose I must make an unconscious adjustment when I pick it up. Like maybe when I switch from my big ol' 14 fret dread to my 00 12 fret, or from the slender neck on my J-45 to the fatty on my Authentic, or the reach-around from a flat top to my Strat. Or how 'bout from my road bike to my mountain bike? My X20 is my only CF guitar and I have no desire to check out any others. Aside from the positive attributes that all CFs share I love the (to my ears) Gibson-like tone and supreme comfort of the body. And while referring to wood guitars I say stuff like "it's all about the sound not the looks" I love the way my standard X20 looks. Maybe I'll go count the frets for fun now.

Sometimes I have to back up and say "I miss-spoke myself." And sometimes that gets me through the day.

[Acousticado]

Originally Posted by sumokids

I agree -- it's not a "design flaw" and anyone paying attention knows that Ted would never use those words to describe a guitar built by anyone other than the good folks at Emerald. Imagine Ted's response if the N2 neck was described that way (Irish spies, anyone?) ;0)

Yep, Ted has expressed personal opinions about the X20 which are welcome, but design flaw as a valid view isn't one of them.