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Old 12-07-2014, 05:07 AM
Doubleneck Doubleneck is offline
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Default Why do few major artists play Carbon?

If these guitars are as good as we think they are why don't you see major artists playing them?
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Old 12-07-2014, 05:27 AM
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I have no experience with them at all. I absolutely love the concept, but I wonder about the sound.

Not being wood, I wonder if they basically give you 95% of a wood guitar's sound with absolute safety and durability - making them great for travel, outdoor use, guitar-dangerous environments (like mosh pits), etc.

But, for recording or performing, I wonder if artists want 100% of the sound (which makes me wonder why anyone can stand quacky piezos, then)
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Old 12-07-2014, 09:03 AM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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Originally Posted by Doubleneck View Post
If these guitars are as good as we think they are why don't you see major artists playing them?
Not sure who you consider a major artist, but David Wilcox, Sharon Aguilar, and Al Petteway seem rather happy playing Rainsong. I think the main reason you don't see more Rainsongs out there is the same reason you don't see a lot of Froggy's or Huss & Daltons out there, just not than many are built, only about a 1000 guitars per year. If you were thinking of major artists like Paul Simon and Eric Clapton, than the answer is simple, these "A list" artist get huge sums of money to be seen with a particular brand, none of the small builders can afford them.


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Originally Posted by fazool View Post
I have no experience with them at all. I absolutely love the concept, but I wonder about the sound.

Not being wood, I wonder if they basically give you 95% of a wood guitar's sound...
They don't give you 95% of a wood guitars sound, they give you a different sound, in fact for recoding and stage use they will outperform most wood guitars for most styles. So why isn't everyone using them? Because it really doesn't matter which acoustic you use on stage or in the studio. The tonal nuances we all love to talk about on these forums can't be heard during a large venue live performance, and certainly cant be heard in a noisy bar. As far as studio recordings go, most of what you hear is the result of what happens after the musicians left.

Last edited by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales; 12-08-2014 at 08:02 AM. Reason: typo, 100 instead 1000
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Old 12-07-2014, 09:13 AM
Captain Jim Captain Jim is offline
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This is just one guy's opinion... carbon fiber guitars do sound good, but many of the designs don't look "traditional." If you're going to get on stage, you want the crowd to accept you. People are used to electric guitars having a lot of different looks; not so with acoustic guitars.

The first time I played out with the Shorty, I mentioned that it was carbon fiber and "check out those cool sharks on the fretboard." Several people came up when I was done, just to see the guitar closer. I haven't mentioned it again, and no one has said anything about the guitar. It just looks like a guitar, albeit a black guitar. I do get compliments on the sound, and I just say, "Thank you."

How many here - in a place where we appreciate carbon fiber - would pick the Blackbird Rider over the Lucky 13, all things being equal?

I think acoustic players (and their audiences) tend to be more traditional.

Jim
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Old 12-07-2014, 09:26 AM
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What Ted said. He nailed it.
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Old 12-07-2014, 10:35 AM
slewis slewis is offline
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Some country music semi-major star also plays a Composite Acoustics GX, so there's one. I played at an outdoor concert venue this past summer and the sound man came up to me afterward, unsolicited, and said he'd never had such a good guitar sound as he was getting out of my CA GX. That was good to hear. Black wood guitars have also been used for a long time by some big stars (what's that one guy's name? Johnny something...) and I'd bet the average audience member wouldn't have a clue as to a black guitar being carbon fiber instead of wood. I'd guess you'll see them slowly catching on more and more.
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Old 12-07-2014, 10:44 AM
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The answer is simple, the majority of people prefer wood over plastic for a slew of reasons.
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Old 12-07-2014, 11:19 AM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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Originally Posted by Pick guard View Post
The answer is simple, the majority of people prefer wood over plastic for a slew of reasons.
No why didn't I think of that?
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Old 12-07-2014, 11:23 AM
Captain Jim Captain Jim is offline
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Originally Posted by Pick guard View Post
The answer is simple, the majority of people prefer wood over plastic for a slew of reasons.
Spoken like someone who doesn't understand the difference between plastic and carbon fiber/composite. For eons, wood was the only option for many things. How are those wooden storage bowls working out for you? Kinda tough to pull the nails out to get at your left-overs. Yes, that was a less than reasoned response, much like your statement.

I have wood guitars; I like 'em. I also have a carbon fiber guitar that has definitely earned its place. One just has to have an open mind... and understand the right tool for the job. (See my earlier post about being traditional.)

And just for discussion sake (and I understand your intent was to make a derogatory statement), there is a difference between plastic and carbon fiber/composite. If a manufacturer could make a guitar from plastic and make it sound good, the price would be less expensive than wood... vaccu-form 'em, and knock 'em out. Carbon fiber guitars are not made by pouring liquid plastic in a mold.

Just like fiberglass/composite boats own the market. Oh, and how many wood airplanes do you see these days? Got a wood bicycle frame? Don't get me wrong - I love my wood guitars. I've been playing for 50 years, and have learned that there are options.

Captain Jim
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Old 12-07-2014, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doubleneck View Post
If these guitars are as good as we think they are why don't you see major artists playing them?
It's a good question. I think they should be out there more. Until I played one last week I would not have known of their potential. Until then I dismissed them as plastic wannabes guitars. Maybe that's the current consensus?
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Old 12-08-2014, 05:19 AM
Doubleneck Doubleneck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales View Post
Not sure who you consider a major artist, but David Wilcox, Sharon Aguilar, and Al Petteway seem rather happy playing Rainsong. I think the main reason you don't see more Rainsongs out there is the same reason you don't see a lot of Froggy's or Huss & Daltons out there, just not than many are built, only about a 100 guitars per year. If you were thinking of major artists like Paul Simon and Eric Clapton, than the answer is simple, these "A list" artist get huge sums of money to be seen with a particular brand, none of the small builders can afford them.
I hear you: not going to argue what's a major artist but their rarity among those that make a living performing is undeniable. Rainsong makes around a 1000 guitars a year, certainly much fewer than the big wood producers. But many artists use rarer custom guitars not Gibson, Martin or Taylor. You just don't see Carbons out there?
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Old 12-08-2014, 05:42 AM
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I think they are seen as objects of utility while we view wood guitars as objects of artistic craftsmanship. Most musicians would have more empathy and appreciation of the artistic craftsman than they would for the high tech manufacturer. Notice how most wood acoustic guitar makes use a person's name as a brand while the CF makers use some generic brand.
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Old 12-08-2014, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Jim View Post
Spoken like someone who doesn't understand the difference between plastic and carbon fiber/composite. For eons, wood was the only option for many things. How are those wooden storage bowls working out for you? Kinda tough to pull the nails out to get at your left-overs. Yes, that was a less than reasoned response, much like your statement.

I have wood guitars; I like 'em. I also have a carbon fiber guitar that has definitely earned its place. One just has to have an open mind... and understand the right tool for the job. (See my earlier post about being traditional.)

And just for discussion sake (and I understand your intent was to make a derogatory statement), there is a difference between plastic and carbon fiber/composite. If a manufacturer could make a guitar from plastic and make it sound good, the price would be less expensive than wood... vaccu-form 'em, and knock 'em out. Carbon fiber guitars are not made by pouring liquid plastic in a mold.

Just like fiberglass/composite boats own the market. Oh, and how many wood airplanes do you see these days? Got a wood bicycle frame? Don't get me wrong - I love my wood guitars. I've been playing for 50 years, and have learned that there are options.

Captain Jim
i dont think he was trying to make a derogatory statement, or even stating HIS opinion. I think he was just stating a fact, most people DO prefer wood over carbon fiber for guitars
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Old 12-08-2014, 08:44 AM
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I believe Ovation / Adamas has proven itself to be a viable alternative ever since Glen Campbell showed up on Nation Television in the late 60's proving the worth of a "not all wood" guitar.
An acoustic that played like a Les Paul. That was cutting edge, but even as late as .......well.......yesterday, Guitar players give them the thumbs down. Why?
The subjective nature of humanity.
The current offerings of Carbon / Composite Guitars simply need to be played to open up first the ears, next the arms, then the heart of musicians, finally the wallet.
We all know Garth doesn't play a Takamine because it sounds better.
Time has a way of keeping good around and fads fleeting.
I have a place in my heart for every guitar that I have owned or been touched by.
I have owned Grammar, Gibson, Gurian, Adamas, Ovation, Takamine, Alverez, Gretsch, Yamaha, Martin, Taylor, and Rainsong.
I currently have the Martin, Taylor, and Rainsong. The Rainsong is my favorite all around acoustic! Easier on my old hands, and ears.
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Old 12-08-2014, 08:46 AM
Ted @ LA Guitar Sales Ted @ LA Guitar Sales is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doubleneck View Post
I hear you: not going to argue what's a major artist but their rarity among those that make a living performing is undeniable. Rainsong makes around a 1000 guitars a year, certainly much fewer than the big wood producers. But many artists use rarer custom guitars not Gibson, Martin or Taylor. You just don't see Carbons out there?
Steve, the fact is unless you travel the US and see a good number of live shows every week you have no idea what is out there, so I'm guessing you're basing your opinion on what you see on TV. I honestly can't think of any major artists on TV who use brands that are made in smaller numbers than Rainsong. If you look real hard you might see a Collings pop up, but they crank out around 3000 to 4000 guitars a year. Besides Collings, it has become stylish to be seen with a McPherson in lieu of rhinestones on the country music scene, but I can't even think of a half dozen artist on TV who play Olson, Bourgeois, Froggy, Lowden, or the most venerable of the small shop brands, Santa Cruz. Can you?

I have a friend who is a major artist in the Celtic scene, she switched to a Rainsong from her Martin a few years ago because she knew she would lose nothing tonally given the venues she plays, so she went for the durability. Now that she has had the guitar for a while she found that it records better than her Martin dread as well.

Again, it's not about CF vs wood, it's about numbers. I sell as many small shop wood guitars as I do guitars made of CF, quite a few of each I might add, and statistically people buy small shop boutique guitars to add to their collections and play them at home while folks buy Rainsongs to play out. I would bet good money that a larger percentage of Rainsongs in existence are out there working for a living than any of one the boutique brands.
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