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  #31  
Old 10-26-2013, 03:57 PM
$ongWriter $ongWriter is offline
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Default wrong..

Quote:
Originally Posted by kydave View Post
D-18 = Thin
D-18V = Less Thin
D-18GE = Least Thin (of the three)
D-18 Authentic = Just right (sounds more like a good D-28)

Sorry man..but you're just wrong..the new D-18 is great...the day I traded for mine I ab'd it with a D-18 GE and there was not $1500 difference in them..plus the new D-18 has a great neck..not the clunky thing...my D-18 is anything but thin....just saying...and yea..i'll fight someone over this!!...lol!!!
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  #32  
Old 10-26-2013, 04:05 PM
$ongWriter $ongWriter is offline
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Default sorry..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Yates View Post
Dave said, "...more like…". I take that to mean thicker and richer than a typical modern mahogany guitar, but not exactly like a rosewood guitar. Not that I have much experience Authentics or anything like that.

To answer the OP's question, I can't tell much difference between the new D-18 and the discontinued D-18V. It really comes down to the individual guitar and preference for neck shape.

The straight braced D-18 is going to be considerably brighter and often thinner. They tend to sound better as they get older, but still not my first choice.

The D-18GE will be bolder than either of those, thicker mids and a better bottom end.

The Authentic is another animal entirely, IMO.
Wait....the "new" D-18 is not straight braced..thus the better sound!!!
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Martin's
42D-18
262-17
54D-28
49-000-18
49-OO-18 shade top
56 OO-18
D-28LSH
OMJM
OM-28 RC
D-28 37'A
M3M
D-18
PRE WAR "J"
Gibson 42 J-35
Gibson 51 J-45
Taylor 616e proto
Tak "kc"
Tak SS
Tak New Yorker
Rainsong shorty
Gibson 78 LP Deluxe
Gibson SG
Fender Lacabrinta Tele
Fender p-90 Tele
Fender 51' CS No caster
Fender CS Strat
Fender 73 P bass
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  #33  
Old 10-26-2013, 04:22 PM
Guest 1928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by $ongWriter View Post
Wait....the "new" D-18 is not straight braced..thus the better sound!!!
You need to go back and look at my post again. I noted that the choice between the D-18V and the new D-18 comes down to preference in neck shape. (They share the same bracing.)

I also noted that the straight braced D-18 is much brighter.
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  #34  
Old 10-26-2013, 06:12 PM
MICHAEL MYERS MICHAEL MYERS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Yates View Post
You need to go back and look at my post again. I noted that the choice between the D-18V and the new D-18 comes down to preference in neck shape. (They share the same bracing.)

I also noted that the straight braced D-18 is much brighter.
I would say that the new D-18 is brighter. The straight braced D-18 is quite a mellow laid back guitar in my experience. The new one has that bluegrass style brightness along with the bigger bass. More of a scooped tone. But I guess we do all hear things differently.
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  #35  
Old 10-26-2013, 08:12 PM
Guest 1928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MICHAEL MYERS View Post
I would say that the new D-18 is brighter. The straight braced D-18 is quite a mellow laid back guitar in my experience. The new one has that bluegrass style brightness along with the bigger bass. More of a scooped tone. But I guess we do all hear things differently.
I'd guess that we're hearing the same thing, but describing it differently. People often say Sitka is warmer and red spruce is brighter. I hear Sitka as crunchy and red spruce as smooth. Very tough to put tone into words - accurately.
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  #36  
Old 10-26-2013, 08:19 PM
Legolas1971 Legolas1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kydave View Post
I use that, as I have heard it used over the decades, as the qualities historically attributed to the reasons some people (not me) generalize and say "the D-28 is full and good for rhythm, while the D-18 is good for lead because of its cut (or clarity or punch)".

I am of the opinion that a good D-28 basically has the qualities of a good D-18, yet expands on those qualities. Not that it's a trade-off.

Projection, I think, would be a useful alternate description, although as we all know - describing sound in a way that is meaningful to all people in all ways is a lot like herding cats.

IMO, the people who say a D-18 is better for lead than a D-28 simply have not played enough of the right D-28's. Listen to the audio below.



Cherokee Shuffle by 3 D-28 (or D-28 type) guitars

I respect your love for D-28's; I really do. However, IMO you may be over stating what they do well. I have played many D-28's over 25 years
of playing and have never really loved them. I feel the same way about HD-28's. To my ears the rosewoods are too muddy. This may be due to the overtones but whatever the reason I prefer the less overtone heavy hog guitars.

Don't get me wrong I love Martin's and I can appreciate rosewood guitars but D28's aren't better than D18's; they're just different.
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  #37  
Old 10-27-2013, 12:41 AM
kydave kydave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legolas1971 View Post
I respect your love for D-28's; I really do. However, IMO you may be over stating what they do well. I have played many D-28's over 25 years
of playing and have never really loved them. I feel the same way about HD-28's. To my ears the rosewoods are too muddy. This may be due to the overtones but whatever the reason I prefer the less overtone heavy hog guitars.

Don't get me wrong I love Martin's and I can appreciate rosewood guitars but D28's aren't better than D18's; they're just different.
If you find those guitars in that video of Cherokee Shuffle "muddy" then there's nothing I can say... Different strokes and definitely different definitions of "muddy".

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  #38  
Old 10-27-2013, 02:33 AM
billybillly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kydave View Post
If you find those guitars in that video of Cherokee Shuffle "muddy" then there's nothing I can say... Different strokes and definitely different definitions of "muddy".

D28's and HD28's will never be as clear sounding as the D18 series, that's the point. It's just the nature of rosewood vs mahogany.
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  #39  
Old 10-27-2013, 08:18 AM
Legolas1971 Legolas1971 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billybillly View Post
D28's and HD28's will never be as clear sounding as the D18 series, that's the point. It's just the nature of rosewood vs mahogany.
Exactly.......And again; neither one is better than the other just different.
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  #40  
Old 10-27-2013, 10:14 AM
kydave kydave is offline
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I'm not asking for judgment, more like semantics.

Do you consider the sound of those guitars in Cherokee Shuffle "muddy" sounding, was all I was asking.

I guess at a certain point "clear" can be considered "thin" by some; "rich" can be considered "muddy" by some. Again... semantics.

Personally, I find those examples to be extremely clear AND extremely rich.

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  #41  
Old 10-27-2013, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MICHAEL MYERS View Post
I would say that the new D-18 is brighter. The straight braced D-18 is quite a mellow laid back guitar in my experience. The new one has that bluegrass style brightness along with the bigger bass. More of a scooped tone. But I guess we do all hear things differently.
You're hearing what I'm hearing whenever I've played those guitars.
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  #42  
Old 10-27-2013, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by kydave View Post
...Do you consider the sound of those guitars in Cherokee Shuffle "muddy" sounding, was all I was asking...
No.

Even after all the discussion on these forums, we have no common language to describe tone. That is part of the problem.
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  #43  
Old 10-27-2013, 10:48 AM
warfrat73 warfrat73 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kydave View Post
IMO, the people who say a D-18 is better for lead than a D-28 simply have not played enough of the right D-28's. Listen to the audio below.
I think this is a big part of the debate here... the question isn't are some D-28s as well, if not better, suited to lead as some D-18s... certainly they are, just ask Tony Rice. I think the question is more about the average than the exceptions. It's true that some of us simply have not played "the right D-28s," but from what I've seen most of the heavy hitters that do play D-28s for most of their lead work play models/vintages far out of my (and many people's) price range (Tony obviously fits this trend, as does Bryan Sutton). In terms of fairly mainstream, post '69, fairly affordable models, you're right perhaps I haven't played enough of the "right" ones. But on average I've found, among these models, that D-18s better fit my sense of a what a lead bluegrass guitar should sound like. Doesn't mean that the sound in my head is the right one, it's just the sound in my head.

As for that recording, I wouldn't say any of the guitars sounded muddy, but neither did they sound as bright or crisp or focused as I'd prefer for lead bluegrass tone... though they all sounded quite good.

Here's another "Cherokee Shuffle" (recording not quite so good, and maybe not actually "Cherokee Shuffle," but that's what it says). In my opinion Kenny Smith (who appears to be playing some iteration of a Collings D-1) and Sutton (playing the banjo killer) have better lead tone than Grier does on what I believe is his '46 D-28... if that's his D-18 then forget I said anything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tvbc3frTbEo
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  #44  
Old 10-27-2013, 12:02 PM
6L6 6L6 is offline
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If you can afford a 1937 D-18A, the rest of the comparisons are interesting, but not in the same league at all.
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  #45  
Old 10-30-2013, 03:24 PM
bjewell bjewell is offline
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I've owned my '05 D-18A since May of 2006. Bought it in Tokyo - paid full pop -- and have never looked back. I think when KYDave talks about sounding like a 28 he might be refering to their power (Hi Dave!).

I've played the snot out of this guitar -- frets are getting dow, action is gettin gup and the color has darkened despite the stain on the top. It reminds me a bit of the '41 D-18 I bought years ago from RC Snoddy but the Authentic has more depth and as Tony Rice said of his old '34, almost unlimited power.

It is fussy about strings; it likes the cheapest Martin medium PBs by far, less so D'Addarios - -they seem to thunky at least on my particular guitar.

Guitars being what they are, there are a lot of variables. Find a good one and keep it. Trade around for others but find one keeper and grow old with it...
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